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Water Damage to Girts, A1V Replacements, and “Sold Comps” in WA

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about concerns that water might damage girts with use of spray foam, a replacement for A1V, and a request for “sold comps” in the state of Washington.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am very early in the stages of considering self-building a post frame home. Spending a lot of time researching and learning as much as possible, mostly on Hansen Buildings since you provide such a wealth of information, thanks! My question: How do you go about weather protecting the girts against potential water intrusion from the siding/windows when using closed cell spray foam? I know with other insulation types, a weather barrier like Tyvek is used but this is not usually advisable for spray foam. My concern is that I build my home and water finds a way in and then rots away at my girts since the girts are on the outside of the vapor barrier but under my steel and it can’t dry out well enough. Am I worrying about something that is a non-issue? I am not 100% sold on closed cell spray foam for this reason, however, I do seem to gravitate back to it due to its ability to air seal well and high R value for the thickness. Thanks, CALVIN in HARTFORD

DEAR CALVIN: Appreciate your kind words.

Closed cell spray foam does provide a 100% water seal. If you are using bookshelf wall girts (highly recommended), then vinyl window’s 1-1/2″ nailing flange entirely covers framing around window openings. Even if water where to somehow penetrate steel siding around a window, it would be stopped by closed cell spray foam at juncture with nailing flange – so no way for water to ever get to wood.

While I used closed cell spray foam to insulate when I added an elevator shaft to our barndominium in Northeast South Dakota, I am just not convinced it is economically practical in northern climates.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Tried to buy the A1V radiant barrier you suggest in your blogs. Apparently it’s no longer available. What product do you suggest in its place? Is there something that can be applied after metal installation that can be sprayed on? I have seen some products that claim to be a condensation stop and sprayed on after the fact which seems like a great idea if it works and is more cost effective than close cell spray foam. Thanks TIMOTHY in CLINTON

DEAR TIMOTHY: You are oh-so-close to my favorite stop for cinnamon rolls! (shameless plug here: https://www.rivercitygrillmissoula.com/)

We discontinued A1V radiant reflective barriers several years ago – as shipping six foot wide rolls became a challenge and trying to install in even moderate winds resembled juggling cats. Every effort has been made to remove older blog articles recommending this as a possible option.

We have been offering to our clients factory applied integral condensation controls (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/).

As far as products able to be sprayed on after roofing is installed, only two inches or more of closed cell spray foam appears to actually work.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Our lender is asking for sold comps in order to put together our loan package with land and building costs. Do you keep a list of comps in Washington State? Thank you! SANDRA in GALLUP

DEAR SANDRA: Your sold comps will be any custom designed home, they do not have to be steel roofed and/or sided or even post frame. If your lender cannot grasp this, it might be time to seek a different lender. Many of our clients have used https://www.ffbkc.com/borrow/build-a-home/barndominium-financing/ as they understand barndominiums (and loan in Washington state).

This entry was posted in Ventilation, Lumber, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Budget, Pole Barn Design, Columns, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Barndominium and tagged A1V alternative, condensation control, moisture barrier, Condenstop, housewrap, dripstop condensation control, spray foam, water damage on June 11, 2025 by Rick Ochs.

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding Panels

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding at the Job site

All steel roofing and siding panel bundles are inspected and approved by manufacturer’s quality control inspectors before shipment. Inspect panels for any moisture content or shipping damage upon delivery and advise the materials carrier immediately.

Bare (non-painted) Galvalume sheet, like galvanized, is subject to wet storage staining and turns gray to black if moisture is trapped between coil laps, cut length sheets, or roll formed parts during shipping and storage. Steel mills treat Galvalume sheet to delay wet storage staining; however, take precautions to keep Galvalume sheeting dry at work site.

Jobsite storage of steel building panels (provided by Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association):

Two Rules to Live By:

1) Keep job site storage time to a minimum with proper scheduling

2) Keep panels dry.

“Moisture trapped within panel bundles can cause the finish to soften and become more susceptible to erection handling damage. Panels stored wet for extended periods in humid conditions will oxidize (rust). Such damage is avoidable with proper planning and practice.

Panel bundles should be stored under a roof or at least, out of direct sunlight. Bundles should be slanted at an angle [from end to end] sufficient to facilitate drainage and high enough off the ground for good air movement all around. Do not use tight-fitting plastic-type tarpaulins as panel bundle covers. While they may provide protection from heavy downpours, they can also delay necessary ventilation and trap heat and moisture causing the so-called “greenhouse effect” that accelerates corrosion. Long panels must have additional support to prevent sagging and potential water accumulation in the sag.

If panel bundles arrive wet or become wet at the job site, break them open and allow them to dry completely.”

When moisture is found, besides breaking apart bundles, drain each panel and wipe dry. After dried, carefully re-stack panels and loosely recover allowing for ample air circulation.

Extended panel storage in a bundle is not recommended. Prevent bundled sheets from being in contact with accumulating water. Under no circumstance store sheets near or in contact with salt water, corrosive chemicals, ash, or fumes generated or released inside a building or nearby plants, foundries, plating works, kilns, fertilizer, and wet or green lumber.

Steel Roofing with Condenstop or Dripstop And Jobsite Storage

Warning: Storing panel bundles prior to installation could allow moisture to become trapped between panels and may cause damage to panels. This moisture can originate from a variety of sources such as rain, high humidity or condensation. Panels should be stored in a dry location and installed as quickly as possible when arriving at the job site to prevent damage. If this is impossible, proper consideration should be given to separate panels to allow for air circulation prior to installation. Allowing moisture to become trapped within panel bundles can void all panel warranties.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Ventilation, Barndominium and tagged Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association, panel storage, galvalume, dripstop, Condenstop on May 15, 2025 by Rick Ochs.

Florida Approved Wall Panels, Drip Stop Metal Roofing, and Widest Builds

This week the Pole Barn Guru discusses reader concerns about Florida approved board and batten panels for walls, the use of drip stop or condenstop in residential applications, and what the widest build without support poles could be.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I need a 4×8 siding material that has a Florida Product Approval Code. I was hoping to use Georgia-Pacific Plytanium T1-11, but it does not seem to be approved. What would you suggest for a board-and-batten siding that is approved? The barn is 30×48, 14′ side walls. CHRIS in ORLANDO

DEAR CHRIS: Plytanium is not a structural panel, however it could be applied as siding over an approved OSB or plywood sheathing.

JamesHardie Cempanel siding (as an example) has a Florida approval (FL13223). You can stop at your local The Home Depot ProDesk and inquire as to what other readily available options would have Florida approvals.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, my name is Martin and I am a local building inspector here in Ohio. I do residential and commercial building inspections. I recently inspected a newly built home that had Drip Stop metal installed on the roof. It was installed on 2×4 trusses 2’ on center with pine 2×4 purlins. This new build home has NO plywood or moisture barrier other than the metal drip stop roof. This is a fairly new product. I am a little confused on the proper application procedures for a residential home. Your product is wonderful and it is really catching on here in Ohio, I have it installed on my 1976 residential home, but it was installed right over the existing fiberglass shingles with wood purlins. So with that said can you send me any drawings or application procedures your company recommends for new residential home construction and also anything you recommend for installing the drip stop over an existing fiberglass shingle. Feel free to call my business cell to help explain and walk me through the process. I appreciate your time and any installation procedures your team would recommend. MARTIN in OHIO

DEAR MARTIN: Thank you for reaching out to us. Integral Condensation Controls (Dripstop, Condenstop, etc.) are wonderful products. In order to properly function, they do require proper airflow (vented eave soffits and vented ridge, in correct proportions). Installing over a roof deck (either new construction or a reroof) does defeat purpose of preventing condensation (any warm moist air from attic is prevented from contacting underside of cooler roof steel already), however it would still have benefits of reduced sound transmission and decrease in solar heat gain.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it cheaper to build wider rather than longer? How wide can be built without support beams? KRIS in VEEDERSBURG

DEAR KRIS: Ultimately, your most effective interior layout should override saving or spending a few extra cents per square foot. While perfectly square, is typically going to be more cost effective (due to having less wall surface), as long as your length to width ratio is under 3:1 it normally is not going to significantly impact your costs (provided you are not in an extreme wind area, or excessively tall). While I have built clearspan post frame to 100 feet in width (and had engineered designs of 140 feet), price per square foot generally starts to ramp up beyond 80 foot wide. This will, of course, depend upon applicable roof loads.

This entry was posted in Professional Engineer, Insulation, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Heating, Trusses, Ventilation, Barndominium, Alternate Siding, floorplans, Building Interior and tagged Florida approved, Cempanel, Clear Span, drip stop, Condenstop, t1-11, Ventilation, Florida approved wall material on May 22, 2024 by admin.

What to do About Possible Roof Condensation?

What to do About Possible Roof Condensation?

Reader JEFF in ADEL writes:

“Hello, I am going to order Post Frame building materials and am working on details. The question about condensation is driving me nuts as this is a big project for me and I don’t want a wet building. It will be a 30x48x11 high side walls. 8′ on center truss/posts. No overhangs on any side Concrete floor. Not heated, not insulated and not finished inside. Location in central Iowa, I plan to wrap the walls with house wrap during build, to block wind and rain. What do I do for the roof? My worry is condensation. I have 2 neighbors that have somewhat similar builds that did nothing and say they don’t have condensation problems. My vendor offers house wrap, or a radiant barrier. What I have read says don’t use house wrap on roof because it is not a vapor barrier. I agree with that assessment. My vendor does not offer a dripstop backed steel. This condensation problem seems baffling as there is so much conflicting information and everyone you ask has a bias to sell something that may or may not work and might deteriorate and might make it worse. Am I over thinking it and should I just put up the building and fix the problem later only if I have it? Or is there a simple solution? Thank you.”

Thank you for reaching out to me. All I can say is, your neighbors have been lucky.

To begin with, I would recommend you build a fully engineered building utilizing double trusses every 12 feet rather than single trusses every eight feet.

Why?

Worst part of any building is digging holes, fewer holes means less probability of hitting a Volkswagon sized rock.

Every 12 feet, means fewer columns to set (posts are not your building’s weak link), fewer connections to be made and less pieces to handle, making for a quicker installation.

Double trusses reduce needed truss bracing, as well as creating actual physical load sharing between these two members. In event of a catastrophic snow even, likelihood of both trusses having an exact same weak point and failing is about as close to zero as one can get.

Moving forward – consider adding enclosed vented overhangs on your sidewalls (if not enclosed overhangs on all four sides). You only get a single opportunity to have overhangs. Personally, I would do without doors before I would do without overhangs. You can always add doors later, but not overhangs. Overhangs will keep your building walls cleaner, as they push rain runoff and snow slide off away from your building walls. Your building will look less industrial (better for resale) and it affords an air intake for ventilation.

Combined with a vented ridge, Hansen Pole Buildings can also provide roof steel with a factory applied Integral Condensation Control. This should eliminate all possible future roof

condensation concerns.

Extended reading on Integral Condensation Controls here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

As you have deduced housewrap is wrong product under roof steel for condensation control. It does not create a thermal break – so now condensation appears on bottom of wrap, or moisture passes through and is trapped between roof steel and barrier. Radiant barriers can work – provided all seams are completely sealed. There have been issues with some brands delaminating or facing flaking off over time. This, and difficulty installing in general, are why we stopped offering them several years ago. If you build now, ignoring possible challenges, and they occur – your only practical fix is two inches of closed cell spray foam insulation applied directly to underside of roof steel. We are also finding, other than pure animal confinement structures, most post frame buildings are being insulated at some future date. It is only prudent to take steps to have appropriate ventilation, should someone later decide insulation to be a good idea.

This entry was posted in Barndominium, Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Overhangs, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning and tagged Ventilation, condensation control, roof condensation, house wrap, drip stop, Condenstop, condensation on March 5, 2024 by admin.

Housewrap, Roof Insulation, and Ceiling Fasteners

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about a home owner asking builder to install housewrap on the roof, the best solution to insulate underside of roof, and what the best fastener for screwing steel to ceiling or roof trusses would be.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Pole Barn Guru, thank you for your knowledge. I have a customer wanting house wrap around the exterior of a 30×40 pole barn. Is house wrap to be installed in between purlins and roof steel or will I need a radiant barrier to prevent condensation? Home owner says house wrap on the roof as well but I’m not sure if that’s the route he really wants to go. House wrap on side walls in between girts and side steel is also the best route correct?

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. Provided your client will not be doing closed cell spray foam on walls, use house wrap between girts and wall steel. For his roof, housewrap is totally incorrect, as it allows moisture to pass through and become trapped between wrap and roof steel – potentially causing premature degradation. If your client is not closed cell spray foaming directly to roof steel, then order your roof metal with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied (Dripstop, Condenstop or similar) https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/. If roof steel has already been ordered (again assuming no closed cell spray foam being applied), then you do need some sort of a thermal break – such as a well-sealed radiant barrier.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi Mike, I built a 32’X40’X12′ pole building, (Shop) I used 1 1/2″ foam board on the inside walls, (on the inside of the girts) I can’t decide how I should insulate the underside of the roof. I have had a couple Spray Foam guy’s quote it , that’s pricy. Of course, the best R Value etc. at the most reasonable price is what I am looking for. In some of your post you have mentioned Rockwool that has gotten my attention. I see they make it up to R30. One thing that sticks in my mind is, my builder suggested not to use an insulation that will give insects a place to live. What would be your suggestion for underside of Roof insulation. Thank you. JIM in SPRING HILL

DEAR JIM: If your building has no current provision for controlling condensation on underside of roof steel, then two inches of closed cell spray foam applied directly to steel is your best insulation option. If you desire a greater R value, you can go thicker, or add open cell.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What screw is best for installing metal panels on the ceiling to wood trusses. MICHAEL in WENTZVILLE

DEAR MICHAEL: Most people are using #9 or #10 diameter 1″ screws. If you have ceiling framing 24 inches on center and want to utilize strength of ceiling liner panels to help transfer wind shear loads, then 1-1/2″ long diaphragm screws would be a better design solution.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home, Ventilation, Uncategorized, Insulation, Building Interior, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Heating, Roofing Materials and tagged screws, housewrap, rock wool, spray foam, ceiling steel fasteners, roof insulation, condensation control, drip stop, Condenstop on January 31, 2024 by admin.

Kind Words and Questions From a Future Client

Kind Words and Questions From a Future Client

Reader and future client CHRISTINA in HAWLEY writes:

“Firstly, I’m not going to lie. It was YOU (Guru) that kept me more interested in doing business with your company than with others. Even more so than Pioneer Pole Barns here by me and that’s who everyone goes to around here. The knowledge you give out freely to genuinely HELP the public is what stood out to me. Then I met Carson and that was way, way back. Super easy to talk to and he just and still does roll with the punches. I told Caleb he had a winner in Carson.

We started off with a commercial design and that tanked and then it flipped to residential and now here we are. So, since I’m loyal and Carson stuck it out with me Hansen is getting the business although I’ve had others try to sway me. I feel its right to see this through together with Hansen. Red iron just called last week and nope, not changing.

So now…Can I bug you some more???

I’m meeting with an “erector” named Joe from JLS Constructions, yes, with an “s” at the end (idk). He hasn’t ever put one of these babies up yet but he is eager to learn. I can see that clearly. My question(s) is what would be the right charge to erect my home (3500 sq. ft., 2 rectangle boxes, simple design), how long to do it for a newbie and how deep into winter is too deep to erect? I need that shell up before the first frost, I’m thinking. This way the guys are shielded from inclement weather. Carson has the final if you’d like to take a look.

That’s what I have for questions right now.

*Carson, got your email about the underside of the shed/porch. Gonna ask you maybe a stupid question…if we decide on either metal or wood how do we finish the underside? Are there some sort of layers underneath first before we close it up? Drilling screws into the rafters or some other way? Going to price out both material options. Wood and metal.

With warm regards and appreciation.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:
Thank you very much for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated. More than anything, my goal is to assist good people from making crucial errors they will regret forever – whether they happen to invest in a Hansen Pole Building, or not.

You (or anyone) should feel free to ask me questions at any time – I never feel as though I am being ‘bugged”.

In my mind, fair market value to erect a post frame building shell should be roughly half of material’s costs, with client to provide concrete required for holes and builder to provide any nail gun nails. To get a rough idea of “person-hours” required for a build – for a person with limited or no construction experience, divide material cost by 60, for an average builder divide by 120, for a highly experienced builder 180-240.

As Joe has never erected a post-frame building, I would highly recommend he invest in one of our Construction Manuals (he can reach out to Bonnie@HansenPoleBuildings.com to acquire one). At over 500 pages in length, it covers most instances one would ever encounter and is designed to guide an average DIYer.

Time frame wise – I always liked to begin at first frost. Holes can still be easily dug, and it is a comfortable temperature to work at. It avoids both sweltering heat and frigid cold. Post frame shells go up quickly and this sort of timing works out nicely for being able to work inside all winter, then have things wrapped up come Springtime.

For finishing underside of porches – most clients opt to use trusses when they intend to finish porches out. With ceiling joists installed between truss bottom chords, this makes for a nice level surface to work from, without having to work around other framing members. As long as provisions are made for condensation control on roof steel underside (e.g. an Integral Condensation Control – like Dripstop or Condenstop), there are no other special provisions required.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Building Contractor, Concrete, Insulation, Budget, Pole Barn Questions, About The Pole Barn Guru, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building and tagged porch, fair market value, post fame building, building contractor, Hansen Construction Manual, shed, dripstop, Condenstop on September 12, 2023 by admin.

Roof Truss Costs, Moisture Barriers, and Integrated Condensation Control

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru addresses reader questions about “the most cost effective length to procure, transport and install of a Post Frame Roof Truss 4/12 Pitch; 36′, 40′ or 50′?” a suitable moisture barrier for a shed, and Integrated condensation controls.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Typically, what is the most cost effective length to procure, transport and install of a Post Frame Roof Truss 4/12 Pitch; 36′, 40′ or 50′? Question is relevant to a mixed-use agriculture building. Thank you for your assistance. LYNNE in EDINBURG

DEAR LYNNE: Transportation can often be a limiting factor. In order to avoid pilot cars and over width permits, maximum truss height is limited to 102″ (8’6″). A 50′ span, 4/12 slope truss will normally be roughly 108″ tall, plus any overhang “tails”. So, this would entail an over width permit. Now most truss companies purchase year-long over width permits for their trucks, so this cost is negligible. Most states do not require pilot cars, unless loads are 12 foot or greater in width. This allows for 60 foot span trusses to be hauled without expensive pilot vehicles. As to procurement, while you will pay more per lineal foot of truss as spans increase, you will also need fewer trusses. For an agricultural building, I always encourage clients to build as large as they can economically justify and have space to build on, as it will never be too big. Keeping your building length to three times building width will also help with your budget, as these ratios are typically within shear load carrying capabilities of properly fastened steel roofing and siding.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 12′ x18′ unheated shed framed and ready for the metal roof and siding. The roof will anchor to untreated 2″x4″ purlins. Is it ok to use Tyvek or a similar wrap to cover the seams from the top of my purlin ends and hang over the rake rafters that will be covered by the metal siding???? Is this an acceptable secondary water barrier between my roof and wall seam? My shed will most likely have a crushed limestone floor. It will be unheated and “unfinished” on the inside. No windows and 2 barn doors across from each other. Thank you so much. MACK in BATON ROUGE

DEAR MACK: Before placing your limestone floor materials, install a well-sealed vapor barrier (I recommend 15mil in order to minimize potential for punctures). This will help to minimize, or even eliminate condensation challenges. Order your roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (Condestop, Dripstop or similar) factory applied. Cover walls with Tyvek or similar before installing wall steel.

If purlins cross rake rafters on endwalls, install 2×4 blocking between them to seal any open spaces.

Order steel Rake/Corner trims to cover last rib of roof steel and top of endwall steel (similar to below):

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Building a 50x36x12 pole barn with 4:12 roof pitch. Attic space will be unconditioned with blown in cellulose insulation in ceiling and batten on walls. Attic will be vented with soffit and ridge vent. Walls will have exterior house wrap under metal panels. Question is, what to put under the roof panels? Just a vapor barrier or a dual purpose vapor/radiant barrier? I hear different opinions on placing radiant barrier under roof. STEVEN in SUGAR LAND

DEAR STEVEN: I would order your roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (Dripstop, Condenstop or similar) factory applied. You can read more about these products here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation and tagged condensation control, tyvek, pole barn truss, dripstop, Condenstop, trusses, housewrap, Truss on July 26, 2023 by admin.

Things You Want to See On a Building Proposal

Things You Want to See on a Building Proposal/Contract

Maybe you (as a soon to be building owner, building contractor or provider) are satisfied with being overly vague when it comes to what you are buying or selling. From a contractor/provider standpoint, this gives you lots of leeway to add ‘extra dealer margin’ by providing minimal (or less than minimal) components to unsuspecting buyers.

Now, my employer happens to offer a “price match guarantee” for any comparable building package. If I had a dollar for every quote from a competitor where it was impossible to even determine what was being proposed to be provided, I would be sitting in a beach chair along an ocean, not writing this article!

Today I am going to address a few highlights, if you are pondering a building investment, you will want to pay close attention…provided getting best investment for your money is important.

Things like building dimensions (width, length, eave height and roof slope) as well as roof style (gable, single slope, monitor, gambrel, dual slope, etc.) might seem to be no brainers, however I find even some of these certainly important features to be overlooked!

While there does exist an actual ANSI (American National Standards Institute) definition of Eave Height – most builders and vendors are unawares or just plain choose not to use it. Somewhere your agreement should spell out what is proposed or provided so all have a clear understanding. (Please read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/03/eave_height/)

Will this building be fully enclosed, partially enclosed or merely a roof? It makes a difference in wind design, so should be clearly delineated.

FEATURES

This is not meant to be a comprehensive list, but is to provide an idea as to how extensive it should be.

Thickness (gauge) of steel roofing and siding, as well as warranty AND substrate should be called out. Caution here as IRC (International Residential Code) Table R905.10.3(2) requires a minimum of AZ 50 for 55% aluminum-zinc-alloy-coated steel (Galvalume) or G-90 for Galvanized steel. These same requirements can be found in IBC (International Building Code) Table 1507.4.3(2). Lesser coatings can only be used for “U” buildings. Will there be wainscot, and if so will there be trim between it and upper wall panels?

How will roof steel condensation be controlled? Not addressing this now will cause challenges later. Integrated Condensation Control (Dripstop or Condenstop), Reflective Radiant Barrier (aka Bubble – and it is NOT insulation), Metal Building Insulation (vinyl faced fiberglass), Sheathing (OSB or plywood) with 30# or heavier felt or a synthetic ice and water shield? Tyvek or other similar housewraps (Weather Resistant Barriers) are not effective for condensation control.

How will any dead attic spaces be ventilated? Soffits, gable, ridge?

If other materials are to be used for roofing and/or siding, specifics as to thickness, quality and warranty should be clearly delineated.

Overhangs – open (no soffit) or enclosed (with soffit). Length of overhangs. Soffit material to be used (vinyl, steel, aluminum) as well as vented or non-vented.

Any overhead sectional or roll-up (coil) doors should be appropriately wind rated. Residential or commercial doors? Smooth faced, long panel or short panel? And glass, and if so, inserts? Specifics as to any manufacturer’s stated R values, thickness of steel, interior backers, track options (standard, low headroom, high lift or with run of roof), color, finish painted or primed only, vinyl weather seals, steel trims on jambs, openers and operators should be called out.

Entry door width and heights, is door wood, steel, aluminum, vinyl covered, fiberglass? Jambs wood, steel, aluminum, vinyl covered wood? Doors and jambs finish painted or primed only? Crossbucks? Raised Panel? Glass? Wind rated? R value? Keyed lockset, dead bolts?

Windows with dimensions, type of frame material (aluminum, vinyl, composite, etc.), type (sliding, single hung, double hung, fixed, casement, etc.). Glazing (single, double or triple pane, tempered or non-tempered glass). Color of frame. Integrated J channels? Screens? Gas filled? U-factor and SHGC.

Wall framing (girts) external or bookshelf? External girts rarely meet Code deflection requirements and framing will have to be added to create an insulation cavity or apply interior finishes.

Trusses designed to support a ceiling load? If for sheetrock, a 10 psf (pounds per square foot) bottom chord dead load is required.

Future Building Owners – if it is not specifically called out for, do not assume you are getting it. Building providers and contractors – if you are providing a feature and do not call it out, you are doing a poor job of selling yourself.

Our next article will delve into “Code” design requirements – don’t miss out!

This entry was posted in Building Styles and Designs, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Trusses, Windows, Barndominium, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Building Interior and tagged tyvek, dripstop, International Residential Code, Condenstop, metal building insulation, integrated J channel, reflective radiant barrier, International Building Code, ANSI, bookshelf girts, American National Standards Institute, single hung windows, external girts, sliding windows on June 11, 2021 by admin.

Ceiling Insulation, Drafting Capabilities, and 24″ On Center Framing

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about “ceiling insulation” for a roof rebuild, the capabilities of our drafting and proprietary pricing program, and “what percentage of pole buildings are 24″ on center?”

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: The birds have destroyed the front half of the ceiling insulation in our 40 x 60 pole building. We need a new roof and we plan to take out all the insulation when the roof is done. We don’t know what else to do because if we leave the insulation in the back half of the ceiling, the birds may destroy that also. What do you think? SHARON in STERLING

DEAR SHARON: Typically when I hear people talk about birds having destroyed pole building insulation I think of what is commonly known as Metal Building Insulation. Usually this is a thin layer of fiberglass with a white vinyl face – and once birds get started into it, there is no turning back https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/09/spot-problems-with-this-pole-barn-photo/

If you are doing a reroof, to control condensation your should look at ordering roof steel with a factory applied I.C.C. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I was curious on what program you use to make your plans? Does it do take off and quotes with the drawings? Can you design the interior also the exterior to make a shouse? TIM in NORFOLK

DEAR TIM: Always a pleasure to hear from a “lumber guy”. Our blueprints are actually drafted individually on AutoCAD, however we are gradually transitioning to where most fairly straightforward work will be automated from our trademarked and proprietary “Instant Pricing” system. We searched everywhere trying to find a computer program able to actually accurately do a structural analysis of post frame buildings and found none existed. We created our own and added to it abilities to do real time quotes for any climactic condition and anywhere in America. Our program does quotes, invoices, material takeoffs, creates purchase orders and interfaces with our client data base.

While it can do interior walls, we opted to create a full service program for shouse and barndominium plans with a real person interacting via screen sharing so clients can watch their homes appear before their very eyes from the comfort of their homes.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What percent of pole barns are on 24″ centers? BRUCE in SXARTZ CREEK

DEAR BRUCE: There are numerous components of post frame (pole barn) buildings often placed 24 inches on center. Among these could be wall girts, roof purlins, sometimes roof trusses (most often seen with shingled roofs), floor joists or floor trusses over crawl spaces, basements and for second or third floors. One of fully engineered post frame building design’s beauties is there is no obligation to be at a specific spacing and materials can be utilized for their full structural capacities – making them extremely cost efficient.

This entry was posted in Rebuilding Structures, Lumber, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning and tagged ceiling insulation, drip stop, Condenstop, Instant Pricing, Drafting Capabilities, 24" On Center Framing, framing dimensions, condensation control on January 18, 2021 by admin.

Barndominium: One Story or Two?

Barndominium: One Floor or Two?

Welcome to an ongoing debate about whether it is more cost effective to build a one story or two story barndominium. Commonly I read people advising two stories is less expensive than a single story. Reader TODD in HENNING put me to work when he wrote:

“I’m curious why “Going to multiple stories will be more expensive than building the same amount of finished square footage on a single level”? Everywhere I read it says it’s cheaper to go up than out. For example wouldn’t there be more cost with bigger footprint of concrete, in-floor heating, roof trusses, and more steel on roof? Thanks.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru writes:

It turns out Todd has requested a building quote from Hansen Pole Buildings, so I was able to work scenarios from his requested 40 foot wide by 48 foot long scenario. I arbitrarily merely doubled his building length when looking at a single story. It may have been more cost effective to have done this exercise by going greater in width and less in length (as one gets closer to square, there is less exterior wall surface to side, insulate and drywall).

Included were colored steel roofing and siding, commercial bookshelf wall girts to create a wall insulation cavity (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/), dripstop/condenstop under roof steel to minimize or eliminate condensation (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/), ceiling loaded energy heel trusses (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/) with ceiling joists for sheetrock, 24 inch enclosed vented overhangs, vented ridge and one entry door. In the two story version I added floor trusses and a four foot wide set of stairs.

In order to maintain eight foot finished ceiling heights, two stories requires a 21 foot eave and single story 10 foot. Engineered plans and delivery were included.

I did not include materials for a bearing wall at the floor truss center. Features listed above ran roughly $6000 more to go two floors. Also, with the two floor version, you will lose 50 square feet of usable floor on each level due to stairs.

In this particular instance best overall buy could come down to what you pay for your slab and in-floor heating. Labor to erect a single story will be less expensive (I would predict at least a $3000 difference). Some other thoughts – two story has 1/2 as much attic insulation and 45% more wall insulation. Two story (excluding interior walls) has 30% more wall to drywall. This added exterior wall surface will likely result in more windows.

Personally, I own three multiple floor post frame buildings, these are my considerations:

Accessibility roughly 10% of all Americans will spend time in wheelchairs in their lifetimes. My wife is a paraplegic and we cannot get into one of her son’s homes because it is a split entry. Two of her other sons have built ramps for her, but they also have multi-story homes and it greatly limits areas she can have access to. In our own shouse (shop/house), we added an elevator after her injury (elevators are NOT cheap).

Stairs in general – you are probably much younger than my 62 years, going up and down stairs gets to be a chore as we age.

Heating and cooling – unless each floor is on their own system, one floor is always either too cool or too warm. I put one of my own buildings on two separate heat pumps for this very reason.

In conclusion, whether one story or two, go with what best fits your wants and needs and your property. Love what you build and it will result in a happy ending.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Shouse, Pole Barn Questions, Budget, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building Comparisons, Pole Barn Homes, About The Pole Barn Guru, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Apartments, Trusses, Windows, Concrete, Post Frame Home, Footings, Barndominium, Insulation and tagged commercial bookshelf girts, dripstop, wall insulation cavity, enclosed vented overhangs, Condenstop, floor trusses, condensation, ceiling joists, vented ridge on February 21, 2020 by admin.

Contact Information, Moisture Barrier, and Insulation

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about contact information to build a structure, whether or not to use a moisture barrier in a non-conditioned attic, and guidance to insulate a post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I have a quick question, do you have any regional contact information for people to build these barns? Thank you,

EARL in LOWER MICHIGAN

DEAR EARL: In many areas Hansen Pole Buildings can provide contact information of one or more possible contractors to erect buildings. We can let you know in advance if your area is one or not, however we will not provide names and numbers until after you have invested in a new post frame building kit package from us.

Why?

As much as we would like to believe otherwise, not every client or contractor is morally trustworthy. We have provided builder information to potential clients and had these same wonderful clients try to get builders to go around us and cut a better deal for their building materials. Conversely, we have had builders tell our clients to buy everything direct from them and they will get a better deal.

When either of these situations occur, clients are shortchanging themselves as they are not getting a genuine third-party engineered Hansen Pole Building. We hear about these when problems occur (they almost always do) during construction and clients call our office looking for help! My sympathy level for these people is very low, as they have gotten themselves into their own predicament – generally with disastrous results. Often times these same builders fail to see Building Permits are obtained, or neglect to call for required inspections. Or, builders will provide non-engineered and under design buildings – prone to failing under snow or wind loads far below minimum standards.

If it sounds shady, it probably is.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Mike, thank you for all the great info…

If I build a pole barn with attic storage and insulate only the walls and ceiling with blown in cellulose such that really only the interior ground floor space is insulated (and it will be heated in the winter), should I still worry about condensation on the roof sheet metal up in the attic, since the air up there should be at a similar temperature to outside? (There will be soffit vents and a ridge vent for attic air flow)
IE, do I need the bubble wrap material, or is it then unnecessary if the attic space is uninsulated?

Thanks! JESSE in CLEVELAND

DEAR JESSE: Thank you very much for your kind words!

Absolutely, you should be concerned about attic condensation. Warm moist air from inside your conditioned space will rise into attic and when it comes in contact with your building’s roof steel’s cooler surface it will condense (even with ventilation). For sake of ease of construction I would recommend an integrated Condensation Control Membrane (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/ ). It will be slightly more expensive for materials than a Reflective Radiant Barrier, however time saved should make it well worth your investment.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: In central KY, would it be best to have outside metal, then house wrap on the girts, then plastic vapor barrier, then have blown or fiberglass insulation in the walls, then install metal interior? Is this the correct order or would this be wrong? Also on the ceiling and roof, would you put house wrap under the metal roof, then insulate directly against roof from inside, or just insulate directly on top of the ceiling, which would be metal, like the interior walls? Thank you!! BRAD in LEXINGTON

DEAR BRAD: Here is my definitive guide to post frame insulation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/06/pole-barn-insulation-oh-so-confusing/

In your case – you want moisture to be able to pass out of your wall cavity, so any vapor barrier needs to be on inside directly behind your finished wall surface material. House wrap (Weather Resistant Barrier or WRB) is not a vapor barrier. If installed directly under your roof steel it will allow warm moist air to pass through and you will have condensation between WRB and steel. Not good.

Directly between roof steel and purlins use one of these:

Properly sealed Radiant Reflective Barrier, Steel with Condenstop or Dripstop factory applied, 30# felt or Ice/Snow Shield over plywood or OSB, or (if none of those previously mentioned) two inches of closed cell spray foam. Me, I’d vote for Condenstop/Dripstop as it is a relatively low investment and easy to install. Blow in insulation on top of your ceiling.

And think hard about steel liner panels – they are more expensive than drywall, they reflect sound, there is a potential for condensation from your ceiling and it is difficult to attach things to walls (shelves, cabinets, work benches, etc.).

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Ventilation, Pole Barn Heating, Uncategorized and tagged insulation, moisture barrier, Condenstop, contacts, builder referrals on November 18, 2019 by admin.

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding Panels

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding at the Job site

Jobsite storage of steel building panels (provided by Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association):

Two Rules to Live By:

1) Keep job site storage time to a minimum with proper scheduling

2) Keep panels dry.

If panel bundles arrive wet or become wet at the job site, break them open and allow them to dry completely.”

When moisture is found, besides breaking apart bundles, drain each panel and wipe dry. After dried, carefully re-stack panels and loosely recover allowing for ample air circulation.

Steel Roofing with Condenstop or Dripstop And Jobsite Storage

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Ventilation, Barndominium and tagged galvalume, dripstop, Condenstop, Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association, panel storage on June 14, 2019 by admin.

Plastic Under Roof Steel?

Reader Loren is persistent, he wanted to ask a question in regards to placing plastic under roof steel to prevent condensation, however the wonderful world of technology was making it a challenge. Thinking – Loren emailed me directly.

Here are Loren’s own words:

“I’ve been trying to submit a question to the pole building guru for a while now with no success. Website keeps saying ‘invalid form’? So, I was hoping this email could find its way to Mike, I’d really like for him to weigh in on it. Thanks!

I’ve been scouring your blog for weeks now looking at how to handle water vapor and condensation in my soon to be garage. I know to use Tyvek or similar between the metal siding and purlins, my question is in regards to the roof. I plan to insulate the ceiling (most likely blown in) in the next year or two, so would a good heavy plastic (6 mil) between the roof metal and purlins work for my moisture barrier rather than the foil bubble insulation? Since I’ll have a finished/insulated ceiling and a well vented attic I was hoping to skip the insulative properties of the foil bubble and go straight plastic. Will that work in my case? Or would this even be a good application for the felt backed roof metal? I’ll also lay a well sealed plastic barrier under my slab. Thanks for all of your help via previous posts, just couldn’t find anything about using plastic under roofing. I’m trying to build this garage the right way, but also keeping budget in mind. Thanks again!”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Technology is great, when it works. Thank you for the heads up on the error message, our IT team is working on a fix now.

Plastic (visqueen) under your roof steel will not solve the condensation challenges. Instead you will have condensation on the underside of the visqueen. (to read up on the history of Visqueen and why not to use it under wall steel: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/07/moisture-barrier/) In order to minimize (or ideally eliminate) potential condensation it requires airflow (vented eaves and ridge being the best combination) as well as a thermal break. While a reflective radiant barrier (aka – foil bubble, which is NOT insulation no matter how hard someone tries to convince you) will do the job as long as it has properly sealed overlaps and will be very cost effective, if it was my own building I would be looking at felt backed roof steel (Condenstop or Dripstop) due to the ease of installation.

For more information on Condenstop: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/.

Make sure to order trusses with raised heels, so you get the full attic insulation thickness across the entire ceiling. Take desired R value, divide by three and add two to get the height of the truss heels.

This entry was posted in Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Steel Roofing & Siding, Trusses, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials and tagged visqueen, tyvek, dripstop, Condenstop, foil bubble insulation, felt backed roof metal on June 13, 2018 by admin.

3M VHB Tape

3M™ VHB™ Tape

Reader WILLIAM in DYER writes:

“I’ve been researching pole buildings, and the weak point for putting one up seems to be the screws and washers. Have you looked into using 3M™ VHB™ tape instead of screws and fasteners for attaching the metal exterior sheeting? What are the pros/cons of tape only? Thanks.”

Personally the only way the screws holding the steel roofing and siding on would be the weak point would be if the wrong product is being used, or the right product is being improperly installed.

Here is the scoop on VHB™ tape straight from 3M™:

Details

Fast and easy-to-use permanent bonding method provides high strength and long-term durability
Virtually invisible fastening keeps surfaces smooth
Can replace mechanical fasteners (rivets, welding, screws) or liquid adhesives
Black, 0.045 in (1.1 mm), modified acrylic adhesive and very conformable acrylic foam core bonds to a wide variety of substrates including powder coated paints and irregular surfaces
Eliminate drilling, grinding, refinishing, screwing, welding and clean-up
Creates a permanent seal against water, moisture and more by offering better gap filling capabilities
Pressure sensitive adhesive bonds on contact to provide immediate handling strength
Allows the use of thinner, lighter weight and dissimilar materials

Dream, Design, Deliver with our 3M™ VHB™ Tape 5952. It is a black, 0.045 in (1.1 mm) modified acrylic adhesive with a very conformable, foam core. It can replace rivets, welds and screws. The fast and easy to use permanent bonding method provides high strength and long-term durability. It offers design flexibility with its viscoelasticity and powerful ability to bond to a variety of surfaces.

Convenience Meets Extreme Bonding Power
Our 3M™ VHB™ Tape consists of a durable acrylic adhesive with viscoelastic properties. This provides an extraordinarily strong double sided foam tape that adheres to a broad range of substrates, including aluminum, stainless steel, galvanized steel, composites, plastics, acrylic, polycarbonate, ABS and painted or sealed wood and concrete. Our bonding tapes provide excellent shear strength, conformability, surface adhesion and temperature resistance. They are commonly used in applications across a variety of markets including transportation, appliance, electronics, construction, sign and display and general industrial. Reliably bonds a variety of materials with strength and speed for permanent applications.

Dream, Design, Deliver with the 5952 Family of 3M™ VHB™ Tapes
The 5952 family of 3M™ VHB™ Tapes utilizes modified acrylic adhesive on both sides of a very conformable, adhesive foam core. The combination of strength, conformability and adhesion makes this family one of the most capable and well-rounded 3M™ VHB™ Tapes. It is specifically designed for good adhesion to high, medium and lower surface energy plastics and paints, metals and glass. Applications for this tape include bonding and sealing polycarbonate lens over LCD, signage and windows to post-painted control panels.

An Unconventional Foam Tape
We invented 3M™ VHB™ Tapes in 1980 as the first of their kind. These unique tapes combine conformability with a strong, permanent bond. The result is a family of extraordinarily strong tapes that adhere to a broad range of substrates. 3M™ VHB™ Tape is a proven alternative to screws, rivets, welds and other forms of mechanical fasteners. Skyscrapers, cell phones, electronic highway signs, refrigerators, architectural windows and more all rely on this specialty bonding tape for one or more steps in the assembly, mounting, fastening and sealing process. This trusted and reliable tape offers a consistent bond, outstanding durability and excellent solvent and moisture resistance. 3M stands by all of its products and is there to provide you with design guidance and technical support when you need it.

Proven Reliability from 3M™ VHB™ Tapes
3M™ VHB™ Tape offers a durable bond in a way that mechanical fasteners can’t. This tape enhances the appearance of finished goods by eliminating rivets and screws while providing immediate handling strength. In most cases, fastening with 3M™ VHB™ Tape is a quicker process than drilling, fastening, or using liquid adhesive. Our versatile line of tapes can be used indoors or outdoors in a variety of applications, including window, door and sign assembly, electronics, construction and countless other industrial applications. Chemically resistant as well as UV and temperature stable, 3M™ VHB™ Tape can withstand the heat of Dubai to the cold of Canada. The unique acrylic chemistry is extremely durable and resistant to change over time, making this a long-lasting and powerful tape you can trust.

Bringing Better Ideas to the Surface through Science and Innovation
In our 3M Industrial Adhesives and Tapes Division, we apply the science of adhesion to deliver innovative solutions that improve the design and manufacturing processes of companies around the world. In the end, our technologies help customers like you deliver competitive products to the market faster and more efficiently.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru comments:

Why it might not be the best choice….

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

In order to utilize it with the steel panels, it would need to be tested for shear strength by an independent engineer. It would preclude the use of Building Wrap (like Tyvek) in walls, as well as radiant reflective barriers or Dripstop/Condenstop in roofs.

While it sounds like an excellent product, the cost along may prove prohibitive, as the lowest price I am seeing is somewhere around 70 cents per lineal foot, making it around 10 times as expensive as the diaphragm screws we provide and even more expensive than the smaller diameter lesser quality fasteners used by most post frame suppliers and builders.

This entry was posted in Steel Roofing & Siding, Fasteners, Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials and tagged tyvek, diaphragm screws, steel panels, dripstop, Condenstop, radiant reflective barrier on May 18, 2018 by admin.

Sliding Doors, Roofing Tar on Posts? and Condenstop!

Sliding Doors, Roofing Tar on Posts? and Condenstop!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an arena with 12×12 openings at each end. I want to find a rolling door solution. I would like to have 6.5” doors that open left and right. I’m also interested in finding a door solution that instead of tan metal (matching my building) I find translucent panels.

I can upload photos in a few days when I return to the farm.

Is this something you can help with?

Thanks JASON in CENTRAL POINT

DEAR JASON: If yours is typical post frame (pole) building construction, your opening probably measures 12 feet from center of column to center of column, in which case you would be looking at needing a 12 foot width split sliding door. This would give you two door leafs just over six feet in width, enough to cover the opening, provide an overlap on each side and be able to be covered with two three foot widths of steel siding.

You should be looking at a door system which has all steel girts (horizontals) and verticals, preferably pre-painted. While translucent (polycarbonate) panels could be used, I would typically not recommend them due to their not having a resistance to wracking.

In our case, Hansen Pole Buildings only provides sliding door components with the investment into a complete engineered post frame building kit package. We typically would recommend you pay a visit to the ProDesk at your local The Home Depot to acquire the parts you will need.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Enjoy reading your blog. I will be building in thick wet clay and am worried about post rot due to the amount of moisture. Will painting the entirety of the buried portion of treated pole in roofing tar help preserve the wood? TIM in LEXINGTON

DEAR TIM: Thank you for your kind words, I hope to be both entertaining and informative. Will painting the entirety of the buried portion of a treated pole in roofing tar help preserve the wood? Well, it might, although I have found no studies which would confirm the ability. I did find an interesting article in Scientific American, which may shoot down the idea: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-tar-and-its-products-as-preser/.

The reality of the situation is, a properly pressure preservative treated column is going to outlast all of us, and probably our grandchildren. This article should be of interest: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/12/will-poles-rot-off/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello guru. I bought a bunch of 1/2x4x8 sheets of insulation to put on my new 40×60 barn roof under the steel and on top of purlins .Planned on taping all seams for a moisture barrier. It’s not the really dense foam more of a bead style with a silver back on one side plastic on the other so it’s a little bit squishy. After thinking about it what worries me is that after time it may cause the barn screws seal to loosen up. If the foam lowers it could cause the steel to drop a bit. Than could create a leak under the rubber washer. Or do you think it will work ok? Should I just use Tyvek instead on the purlins? What is your opinion Guru? ABE in WAYLAND

DEAR ABE: Do not use this insulation as you have intended, it will cause you nothing but grief. Not only will your post frame barn roof leak, but the diaphragm strength of your roof steel will be severely compromised, which could lead to a catastrophic failure. Tyvek and other building wraps are not condensation control barriers, they are moisture barriers. There are several possibilities – invest in roof steel with Condenstop or Dripstop preapplied, use a radiant reflective barrier between the purlins and roofing, or spray closed cell foam on after the roof is installed.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Steel Roofing & Siding, Sliding Doors and tagged sliding doors, pressure treated columns, steel roof moisture barrier, double sliding doors, Condenstop, post rot on March 12, 2018 by admin.

Commercial Girts Best for Drywall, Site Prep, and Condensation

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m considering a pole barn for my residence but had a question about the girt placement between posts. I read in the FAQ section that they are placed like shelves between posts. Would it be possible to mount drywall directly to these for interior walls without additional bracing or building of interior wall frames? I’m trying to avoid framing an entire building within a building, it seems pointless and not cost effective. If I need to frame every interior wall to hold drywall and insulation, I can simply build a standard stick frame house. VAN in INDEPENDENCE

DEAR VAN: Bookshelf girts for insulation (e.g. Commercial Girts) is a quick and easy way to create a deep insulation cavity as well as providing the framing for your interior GWB (Gypsum Wall Board). You will want to confirm your new post frame building frame is stiff enough to prevent undue deflection from cracking the GWB joints.

Learn more about commercial girts here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have property in an area that floods from time to time. For example, can a monitor barn (approx. 25×50). with side sheds be built. The idea I have is the side sheds serving as porches and under the barn would be a drive through area. there is already a modular home built in the area that is elevated about 4 ft. off the ground and they have had no problem . Thanks, MIKE in MOLINA

DEAR MIKE: You can build any sort of post frame building on your site which will be allowable under the limitations of your Planning Department. As to dealing with the flood issues, you should have your property elevations determined by a surveyor, and the site where the building will be constructed can then be built up so the floor will be above the flood plain level.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I recently purchased several 4’x50′ reflectix double bubble foil rolls. I’ve put up a brand new 30×56 post frame metal building and was going to use this product to keep the metal roof and walls from condensating not to mention I was hoping it would help keep some heat in during the winter and heat out during the summer until I truly insulate the inside. My question is, for ease of installation on my metal roof panels, is it acceptable to put the foil on the underside of the 2×6 roof joists instead of sandwiching it between the roof joists and metal? There will be no roof venting due to leaving the trusses and attic space exposed. My only real concern is that it could condensate worse installing it this way. Also I will not be continually heating the building. Only on occasion with a propane heater while I’m working. I’m not real savvy when it comes to insulation and condensation control so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! Brandon

DEAR BRANDON: While it would be easy to install the steel roofing without having to place the reflective radiant barrier between the roof purlins and the roof steel, it is going to be the easiest method to limit condensation issues, given the product you have invested in. Hopefully you have gotten the double bubble with a tab along one side and an adhesive pull strip, otherwise you will have to tape all of the seams as you work your way along the roof.

Could you place it on the underside of the purlins? Yes, however in order to work as an effective condensation control, it has to be absolutely tightly sealed against any protruding framing members. Remember the time you saved on installing the roof steel? You just ate it all up.

If you have not yet ordered your steel roofing you could resell the reflective radiant barrier online and order steel with I.C.C. (Integral Condensation Control) attached (see the article and video here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/).

This entry was posted in Insulation, Steel Roofing & Siding, Building Interior, Pole Barn Homes, Uncategorized and tagged condensation, girts, drywall, Condenstop, elevations, site prep on May 8, 2017 by admin.

Integral Condensation Control

Integral Condensation Control (I.C.C.) products are manufactured and distributed with trade names such as Condenstop (which I have written about previously: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/) and Dripstop.

Here are a few words on Dripstop, recorded live at the NFBA Expo held recently in Nashville, Tennessee:

I.C.C. provides drip prevention which is integral to steel roofing and is aimed at saving installation time and labor. I.C.C. is comprised of a polyester fabric with an adhesive glue layer which allows it to be adhered to the washcoat (the underside) of steel roofing panels. The fabric is attached to the sheet metal as it is being unwrapped from the coil and is roll formed with the panel, allowing the steel roofing to arrive on the jobsite ready for immediate installation.

Steel roofing with I.C.C. addresses drip prevention in a new way. By providing a wicking material to retain the moisture, condensation is no longer the enemy. This product works with the natural condensation cycle to prevent dripping and is far more durable than barriers. No additional products or inventory are necessary, and because I.C.C. is factory-applied, no additional jobsite labor is required. No need to worry about dragging around rolls of reflective or metal building insulation, just install the roof and get the job done.

To better understand how this product works, we must first discuss why condensation and dripping happen in the first place. When atmospheric conditions reach the dew point, air contains the maximum amount of moisture it can retain at its temperature. This is known as 100% relative humidity. Since cool air is unable to retain as much moisture as warm air, any drop in temperature from contact with a cooler surface essentially “wrings” the moisture out of the air. This is why fogging (condensation) is caused by the warm, moist air in our breath hitting a colder pane of glass. As the glass cools the warm, moist air contacting it, the moisture in our breath is “wrung” out.

As noted above, where warm air meets cool surfaces, the moisture in this air will often condense to the surface and form droplets. When exterior air cools steel cladding below the building’s interior temperature, the steel can provide this surface. Once condensation begins to take place, the droplets formed will combine as they contact one another, continuing to do so until they are too large to be supported by the liquid’s surface tension. At this point, dripping will occur, essentially raining on the structure’s contents.

Because some people are unaware of this process, many steel roofed post frame building owners are convinced all metal roofing leaks – a make believe ‘fact’ which can deter them from an otherwise superior product as well as cause headaches for both builders and post frame building kit package suppliers. In the past, the solution to this has been to provide a thermal break between the structure’s interior and the steel roofing to isolate the warm moist air inside the building from the underside of the cooler roof steel.

In theory, this is an excellent idea. In practice, it requires additional inventory and a large amount of additional labor. Meanwhile, the steel roofing waits to be installed. These problems are compounded by the fact barrier products are generally hard to handle and install in even mildly inclement weather.

Steel roofing with I.C.C. eliminates these delays, reduces inventory and simplifies construction without sacrificing drip-preventing performance.

The core of I.C.C. is a polyester fleece. When this material is adhered to steel panels, it greatly increases the surface area from moisture to cling to after condensing. The fleece provides hundreds of fibers per square inch for droplets to stick to, thereby greatly increasing the “grip” they have on the interior of the cladding. Because of this, a twelve foot panel can retain over half a gallon of condensed moisture.

Steel roofing with I.C.C. is well suited for a wide variety of applications. Similar products have been available for over 15 years in Europe and have provided successful service on every continent and in nearly every climate in countless applications. Steel roofing with I.C.C. is well suited for self-storage, animal confinement, garages, grain storage, car ports, barns, aircraft hangars, stadiums and literally any other place where condensation and drip prevention are of concern.

The I.C.C. fabric requires contact with air to function properly, therefore it is not recommended for closed-decking applications. Also, it is not meant to function as insulation due to its low R-value.

In closed wall applications, any edges exposed to the exterior of a structure (i.e. the eaves), should be sealed to prevent moisture from seeping into the structure through the fabric.

The additional thickness of the I.C.C. fabric changes the roll-forming characteristics of steel panels, giving panels a slight “barrel-roll”. This effect is limited to an inch of curl up at the sides when the panel lays color up on a flat surface and provides no additional challenges for installation. Another effect is the reduction of smoothness at all bends in the panel. Again, this has no effect on performance of either panel or fabric. The barrel-roll is imperceptible after installation and the bend texture is indiscernible at distances greater than an arm’s length.