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Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding Panels

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding at the Job site 

All steel roofing and siding panel bundles are inspected and approved by manufacturer’s quality control inspectors before shipment. Inspect panels for any moisture content or shipping damage upon delivery and advise the materials carrier immediately.

Bare (non-painted) Galvalume sheet, like galvanized, is subject to wet storage staining and turns gray to black if moisture is trapped between coil laps, cut length sheets, or roll formed parts during shipping and storage. Steel mills treat Galvalume sheet to delay wet storage staining; however, take precautions to keep Galvalume sheeting dry at work site.

Jobsite storage of steel building panels (provided by Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association):

Two Rules to Live By:

1)  Keep job site storage time to a minimum with proper scheduling

2)  Keep panels dry.

“Moisture trapped within panel bundles can cause the finish to soften and become more susceptible to erection handling damage. Panels stored wet for extended periods in humid conditions will oxidize (rust). Such damage is avoidable with proper planning and practice.

Panel bundles should be stored under a roof  or at least, out of direct sunlight. Bundles should be slanted at an angle [from end to end] sufficient to facilitate drainage and high enough off the ground for good air movement all around. Do not use tight-fitting plastic-type tarpaulins as panel bundle covers. While they may provide protection from heavy downpours, they can also delay necessary ventilation and trap heat and moisture causing the so-called “greenhouse effect” that accelerates corrosion. Long panels must have additional support to prevent sagging and potential water accumulation in the sag.

If panel bundles arrive wet or become wet at the job site, break them open and allow them to dry completely.”

When moisture is found, besides breaking apart bundles, drain each panel and wipe dry. After dried, carefully re-stack panels and loosely recover allowing for ample air circulation.

Extended panel storage in a bundle is not recommended. Prevent bundled sheets from being in contact with accumulating water. Under no circumstance store sheets near or in contact with salt water, corrosive chemicals, ash, or fumes generated or released inside a building or nearby plants, foundries, plating works, kilns, fertilizer, and wet or green lumber.

Steel Roofing with Condenstop or Dripstop And Jobsite Storage  

Warning: Storing panel bundles prior to installation could allow moisture to become trapped between panels and may cause damage to panels. This moisture can originate from a variety of sources such as rain, high humidity or condensation. Panels should be stored in a dry location and installed as quickly as possible when arriving at the job site to prevent damage. If this is impossible, proper consideration should be given to separate panels to allow for air circulation prior to installation. Allowing moisture to become trapped within panel bundles can void all panel warranties.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Ventilation, Barndominium and tagged , , , , on by .

Kind Words and Questions From a Future Client

Kind Words and Questions From a Future Client

Reader and future client CHRISTINA in HAWLEY writes:

“Firstly, I’m not going to lie. It was YOU (Guru) that kept me more interested in doing business with your company than with others. Even more so than Pioneer Pole Barns here by me and that’s who everyone goes to around here. The knowledge you give out freely to genuinely HELP the public is what stood out to me. Then I met Carson and that was way, way back. Super easy to talk to and he just and still does roll with the punches. I told Caleb he had a winner in Carson. 

 

We started off with a commercial design and that tanked and then it flipped to residential and now here we are. So, since I’m loyal and Carson stuck it out with me Hansen is getting the business although I’ve had others try to sway me. I feel its right to see this through together with Hansen. Red iron just called last week and nope, not changing.

So now…Can I bug you some more???

I’m meeting with an “erector” named Joe from JLS Constructions, yes, with an “s” at the end (idk). He hasn’t ever put one of these babies up yet but he is eager to learn. I can see that clearly. My question(s) is what would be the right charge to erect my home (3500 sq. ft., 2 rectangle boxes, simple design), how long to do it for a newbie and how deep into winter is too deep to erect? I need that shell up before the first frost, I’m thinking. This way the guys are shielded from inclement weather. Carson has the final if you’d like to take a look.

That’s what I have for questions right now.

*Carson, got your email about the underside of the shed/porch. Gonna ask you maybe a stupid question…if we decide on either metal or wood how do we finish the underside? Are there some sort of layers underneath first before we close it up? Drilling screws into the rafters or some other way? Going to price out both material options. Wood and metal.

With warm regards and appreciation.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:
Thank you very much for your kind words, they are greatly appreciated. More than anything,    my goal is to assist good people from making crucial errors they will regret forever – whether      they happen to invest in a Hansen Pole Building, or not.

You (or anyone) should feel free to ask me questions at any time – I never feel as though I am    being ‘bugged”.

In my mind, fair market value to erect a post frame building shell should be roughly half of        material’s costs, with client to provide concrete required for holes and builder to provide any nail gun nails. To get a rough idea of “person-hours” required for a build – for a person with limited or no construction experience, divide material cost by 60, for an average builder divide by 120, for a highly experienced builder 180-240.

As Joe has never erected a post-frame building, I would highly recommend he invest in one of  our Construction Manuals (he can reach out to Bonnie@HansenPoleBuildings.com to acquire   one). At over 500 pages in length, it covers most instances one would ever encounter and is     designed to guide an average DIYer.

Time frame wise – I always liked to begin at first frost. Holes can still be easily dug, and it is a    comfortable temperature to work at. It avoids both sweltering heat and frigid cold. Post frame     shells go up quickly and this sort of timing works out nicely for being able to work inside all        winter, then have things wrapped up come Springtime.

For finishing underside of porches – most clients opt to use trusses when they intend to finish    porches out. With ceiling joists installed between truss bottom chords, this makes for a nice        level surface to work from, without having to work around other framing members. As long as    provisions are made for condensation control on roof steel underside (e.g. an Integral               Condensation Control – like Dripstop or Condenstop), there are no other special provisions         required.

This entry was posted in Concrete, Insulation, Budget, Pole Barn Questions, About The Pole Barn Guru, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Building Contractor and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Roof Truss Costs, Moisture Barriers, and Integrated Condensation Control

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru addresses reader questions about “the most cost effective length to procure, transport and install of a Post Frame Roof Truss 4/12 Pitch; 36′, 40′ or 50′?” a suitable moisture barrier for a shed, and Integrated condensation controls.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Typically, what is the most cost effective length to procure, transport and install of a Post Frame Roof Truss 4/12 Pitch; 36′, 40′ or 50′? Question is relevant to a mixed-use agriculture building. Thank you for your assistance. LYNNE in EDINBURG

DEAR LYNNE: Transportation can often be a limiting factor. In order to avoid pilot cars and over width permits, maximum truss height is limited to 102″ (8’6″). A 50′ span, 4/12 slope truss will normally be roughly 108″ tall, plus any overhang “tails”. So, this would entail an over width permit. Now most truss companies purchase year-long over width permits for their trucks, so this cost is negligible. Most states do not require pilot cars, unless loads are 12 foot or greater in width. This allows for 60 foot span trusses to be hauled without expensive pilot vehicles. As to procurement, while you will pay more per lineal foot of truss as spans increase, you will also need fewer trusses. For an agricultural building, I always encourage clients to build as large as they can economically justify and have space to build on, as it will never be too big. Keeping your building length to three times building width will also help with your budget, as these ratios are typically within shear load carrying capabilities of properly fastened steel roofing and siding.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 12′ x18′ unheated shed framed and ready for the metal roof and siding. The roof will anchor to untreated 2″x4″ purlins. Is it ok to use Tyvek or a similar wrap to cover the seams from the top of my purlin ends and hang over the rake rafters that will be covered by the metal siding???? Is this an acceptable secondary water barrier between my roof and wall seam? My shed will most likely have a crushed limestone floor. It will be unheated and “unfinished” on the inside. No windows and 2 barn doors across from each other. Thank you so much. MACK in BATON ROUGE

DEAR MACK: Before placing your limestone floor materials, install a well-sealed vapor barrier (I recommend 15mil in order to minimize potential for punctures). This will help to minimize, or even eliminate condensation challenges. Order your roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (Condestop, Dripstop or similar) factory applied. Cover walls with Tyvek or similar before installing wall steel.

If purlins cross rake rafters on endwalls, install 2×4 blocking between them to seal any open spaces.

Order steel Rake/Corner trims to cover last rib of roof steel and top of endwall steel (similar to below):

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Building a 50x36x12 pole barn with 4:12 roof pitch. Attic space will be unconditioned with blown in cellulose insulation in ceiling and batten on walls. Attic will be vented with soffit and ridge vent. Walls will have exterior house wrap under metal panels. Question is, what to put under the roof panels? Just a vapor barrier or a dual purpose vapor/radiant barrier? I hear different opinions on placing radiant barrier under roof. STEVEN in SUGAR LAND

DEAR STEVEN: I would order your roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control (Dripstop, Condenstop or similar) factory applied. You can read more about these products here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/

 

 

This entry was posted in Trusses, Ventilation, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Planning and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Finding Which Way is Up

Finding Which Way Is Up

Avid reader DAVE in BLUFFDALE writes:

“As I told Trey, I’ve been reading and reading and reading your blog posts until I don’t know which way is up!  Don’t get me wrong, you’ve done an amazing job with your blog posts, but it can be a bit overwhelming.  I think part of the problem I’ve had is that your posts span a wide time period and some technologies and techniques have changed over time, so it’s hard, sometimes, to figure out what the latest recommendations are.  Here’s some customer feedback regarding this:  Unless a post has comments under it, it’s impossible to tell when it was written.  The comments are date stamped, but the blog posts are not…take that for what it’s worth, your posts ARE an incredible resource!

Anyway, our building will be 30x60x10 and we don’t (currently) have any plans for heating/cooling the workshop, other than fans & space heaters as needed.  My big concern here in our area of Utah is the summer heat.  

After reading a number of your posts on reflective barriers, I get the impression that you are not (anymore) a big fan.  The other thing I haven’t been able to figure out is how you would put a reflective barrier between the steel roof panels and the purlins and be able to have an air space for the reflected heat to dissipate in.  Is there a way to do this, or is it just not worth it?

My current thought is that we would just use Drip-Stop on the roof panels and put unfaced fiberglass bats between the purlins and hold it in using 6 mil plastic.  I talked with Trey about having an increased heel height on the trusses to allow proper eave to ridge venting in this scenario.

We would do the same for walls…unfaced bats with 6 mil cover.

And, per your recommendation, a good plastic sheet under the slab.  

Which just made me think of another thing…we are planning to put a partial basement under the last 20′ of the building for some cold storage.  I figure we’ll be putting some kind of tar waterproofing product on the basement walls, but should we also put a plastic barrier under the basement floor?  We’ll have a wood joist floor over the basement, so moisture could come up from down there…thoughts?

TIA for any insights you can provide to help us nail down our order!”

Thank you for your kind words. You are correct about changing technologies and techniques and my 2000+ blog articles cover a dozen years of progress.

We’ve provided literally millions of square feet of reflective barriers however they basically function as little more than a condensation control, provided they are properly installed. There is just no realistic way to achieve totally sealed dead air spaces to take advantage of their ability to reflect.

Integral Condensation Controls (Drip Stop) are very effective for condensation control, are affordable, and do not have installation challenges associated with other alternatives. (For extended reading on Integral Condensation Control please see: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/) Placing batts between roof purlins is not your best choice, as Codes require a minimum one-inch of continuous air flow above batts from eave to ridge – impossible to achieve in this scenario. Raised heel trusses, with blown in fiberglass above a ceiling, and properly vented eave and ridge is your best design solution. In your climate zone, I would recommend at least R-49 with 18″ heels.

For walls – I would use a Weather Resistant Barrier (Tyvek or similar) with R-20 or greater batt insulation. I am really liking Mineral Wool batts as they are unaffected by moisture. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/roxul-insulation/

You should have a vapor barrier under any slab inside of a building, so yes to below your basement floor. Your basement walls should be insulated down to top of slab floor with either R-15 continuous insulation boards or R-19 batts.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Ventilation and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Things You Want to See On a Building Proposal

Things You Want to See on a Building Proposal/Contract

Maybe you (as a soon to be building owner, building contractor or provider) are satisfied with being overly vague when it comes to what you are buying or selling. From a contractor/provider standpoint, this gives you lots of leeway to add ‘extra dealer margin’ by providing minimal (or less than minimal) components to unsuspecting buyers.

Now, my employer happens to offer a “price match guarantee” for any comparable building package. If I had a dollar for every quote from a competitor where it was impossible to even determine what was being proposed to be provided, I would be sitting in a beach chair along an ocean, not writing this article!

Today I am going to address a few highlights, if you are pondering a building investment, you will want to pay close attention…provided getting best investment for your money is important.

Things like building dimensions (width, length, eave height and roof slope) as well as roof style (gable, single slope, monitor, gambrel, dual slope, etc.) might seem to be no brainers, however I find even some of these certainly important features to be overlooked!

While there does exist an actual ANSI (American National Standards Institute) definition of Eave Height – most builders and vendors are unawares or just plain choose not to use it. Somewhere your agreement should spell out what is proposed or provided so all have a clear understanding. (Please read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/03/eave_height/)

Will this building be fully enclosed, partially enclosed or merely a roof? It makes a difference in wind design, so should be clearly delineated.

FEATURES

This is not meant to be a comprehensive list, but is to provide an idea as to how extensive it should be.

Thickness (gauge) of steel roofing and siding, as well as warranty AND substrate should be called out. Caution here as IRC (International Residential Code) Table R905.10.3(2) requires a minimum of AZ 50 for 55% aluminum-zinc-alloy-coated steel (Galvalume) or G-90 for Galvanized steel. These same requirements can be found in IBC (International Building Code) Table 1507.4.3(2). Lesser coatings can only be used for “U” buildings. Will there be wainscot, and if so will there be trim between it and upper wall panels?

How will roof steel condensation be controlled? Not addressing this now will cause challenges later. Integrated Condensation Control (Dripstop or Condenstop), Reflective Radiant Barrier (aka Bubble – and it is NOT insulation), Metal Building Insulation (vinyl faced fiberglass), Sheathing (OSB or plywood) with 30# or heavier felt or a synthetic ice and water shield? Tyvek or other similar housewraps (Weather Resistant Barriers) are not effective for condensation control.

How will any dead attic spaces be ventilated? Soffits, gable, ridge?

If other materials are to be used for roofing and/or siding, specifics as to thickness, quality and warranty should be clearly delineated.

Overhangs – open (no soffit) or enclosed (with soffit). Length of overhangs. Soffit material to be used (vinyl, steel, aluminum) as well as vented or non-vented.

Any overhead sectional or roll-up (coil) doors should be appropriately wind rated. Residential or commercial doors? Smooth faced, long panel or short panel? And glass, and if so, inserts? Specifics as to any manufacturer’s stated R values, thickness of steel, interior backers, track options (standard, low headroom, high lift or with run of roof), color, finish painted or primed only, vinyl weather seals, steel trims on jambs,  openers and operators should be called out.

Entry door width and heights, is door wood, steel, aluminum, vinyl covered, fiberglass? Jambs wood, steel, aluminum, vinyl covered wood? Doors and jambs finish painted or primed only? Crossbucks? Raised Panel? Glass? Wind rated? R value? Keyed lockset, dead bolts?

Windows with dimensions, type of frame material (aluminum, vinyl, composite, etc.), type (sliding, single hung, double hung, fixed, casement, etc.). Glazing (single, double or triple pane, tempered or non-tempered glass). Color of frame. Integrated J channels? Screens? Gas filled? U-factor and SHGC.

Wall framing (girts) external or bookshelf? External girts rarely meet Code deflection requirements and framing will have to be added to create an insulation cavity or apply interior finishes.

Trusses designed to support a ceiling load? If for sheetrock, a 10 psf (pounds per square foot) bottom chord dead load is required.

Future Building Owners – if it is not specifically called out for, do not assume you are getting it. Building providers and contractors – if you are providing a feature and do not call it out, you are doing a poor job of selling yourself.

Our next article will delve into “Code” design requirements – don’t miss out!

This entry was posted in Windows, Barndominium, Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Building Interior, Building Styles and Designs, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Trusses and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , on by .

Barndominium: One Story or Two?

Barndominium: One Floor or Two?

Welcome to an ongoing debate about whether it is more cost effective to build a one story or two story barndominium. Commonly I read people advising two stories is less expensive than a single story. Reader TODD in HENNING put me to work when he wrote:

“I’m curious why “Going to multiple stories will be more expensive than building the same amount of finished square footage on a single level”? Everywhere I read it says it’s cheaper to go up than out. For example wouldn’t there be more cost with bigger footprint of concrete, in-floor heating, roof trusses, and more steel on roof? Thanks.”


Mike the Pole Barn Guru writes:

It turns out Todd has requested a building quote from Hansen Pole Buildings, so I was able to work scenarios from his requested 40 foot wide by 48 foot long scenario. I arbitrarily merely doubled his building length when looking at a single story. It may have been more cost effective to have done this exercise by going greater in width and less in length (as one gets closer to square, there is less exterior wall surface to side, insulate and drywall).

Included were colored steel roofing and siding, commercial bookshelf wall girts to create a wall insulation cavity (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/), dripstop/condenstop under roof steel to minimize or eliminate condensation (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/), ceiling loaded energy heel trusses (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/) with ceiling joists for sheetrock, 24 inch enclosed vented overhangs, vented ridge and one entry door. In the two story version I added floor trusses and a four foot wide set of stairs.

In order to maintain eight foot finished ceiling heights, two stories requires a 21 foot eave and single story 10 foot. Engineered plans and delivery were included.

I did not include materials for a bearing wall at the floor truss center. Features listed above ran roughly $6000 more to go two floors. Also, with the two floor version, you will lose 50 square feet of usable floor on each level due to stairs.

In this particular instance best overall buy could come down to what you pay for your slab and in-floor heating. Labor to erect a single story will be less expensive (I would predict at least a $3000 difference). Some other thoughts – two story has 1/2 as much attic insulation and 45% more wall insulation. Two story (excluding interior walls) has 30% more wall to drywall. This added exterior wall surface will likely result in more windows.

Personally, I own three multiple floor post frame buildings, these are my considerations:

Accessibility roughly 10% of all Americans will spend time in wheelchairs in their lifetimes. My wife is a paraplegic and we cannot get into one of her son’s homes because it is a split entry. Two of her other sons have built ramps for her, but they also have multi-story homes and it greatly limits areas she can have access to. In our own shouse (shop/house), we added an elevator after her injury (elevators are NOT cheap).

Stairs in general – you are probably much younger than my 62 years, going up and down stairs gets to be a chore as we age.

Heating and cooling – unless each floor is on their own system, one floor is always either too cool or too warm. I put one of my own buildings on two separate heat pumps for this very reason.

In conclusion, whether one story or two, go with what best fits your wants and needs and your property. Love what you build and it will result in a happy ending.

This entry was posted in Pole Building Comparisons, Pole Barn Homes, About The Pole Barn Guru, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Apartments, Trusses, Windows, Concrete, Post Frame Home, Footings, Barndominium, Insulation, Building Interior, Shouse, Pole Barn Questions, Budget, Pole Barn Design and tagged , , , , , , , , on by .

Planning for a Post Frame Home

When it comes to planning for a new post frame home, shouse (shop/house) or barndominium, there are a myriad of questions and concerns to be answered and pondered.

Or, at least I hope you are – rather than just stumbling in blindly!

Reader NICK in NORTH CAROLINA writes:

“Hi, I’m looking into options for building a post frame home in the coming year in NC and wanted to understand more of the details regarding your current building products and suggested techniques.  

Do you provide a means to support the posts on top of the concrete pillars with a bracket vs the post being embedded into the concrete?

Your current package only provides for insulation of the roof, no interior walls, correct?

Can another 2×6 skirt board be added to the inside of the building to isolate the concrete flooring from the post and to provide a cavity for insulation to be installed between the outside/inside girts?

Do you have a listing of contractors that are familiar with your products in given areas that could be used to build the structure?

If using the design service listed for $695, does that include the design for all interior walls/rooms/fixtures as well as electrical/plumbing/mechanical?

Thanks for any information you can provide.”

All good questions. In answer to them:

Yes we can provide plans with a third-party engineered design for bracket set columns, as well as brackets. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/

We typically recommend using either a Reflective Radiant Barrier (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/05/effective-reflective-insulation/) between roof framing and roof steel, or using roof steel with factory applied Dripstop https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/11/drip-stop/

We can provide batt insulation for walls and/or ceilings, however there are more energy efficient methods of insulating https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/06/pole-barn-insulation-oh-so-confusing/

It (extra 2×6 interior splash plank) could, however there are structural advantages to having columns surrounded (constrained) on exterior splash plank interior. (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/11/importance-of-constrained-posts/) I’d recommend doing a Frost Protected Shallow Foundation post frame style instead: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/09/post-frame-frost-walls/

Although our buildings are designed for an average literate English speaking person to successfully construct their own building (most of them do, and do a wonderful job – because they will read and follow instructions), for those who do need an erector, in many areas we can provide contacts for you to vet.

Our floor plan and elevation package offer (http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q)  includes all interior walls, rooms and fixtures. For an added fee you can include electrical/plumbing/mechanical (note: typically all of these last three services can usually be provided at no charge by subcontractors who will be doing these specific trades).

Please feel free to reach out to me at any time with questions. An answer to most questions can also be found at www.HansenPoleBuildings.com by clicking on SEARCH in the upper right hand corner of any page. Type in a word or two and hit ENTER and up pop relevant articles.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home, Building Contractor, Barndominium, Footings, Building Interior, Professional Engineer and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Planning for a New Post Frame Home

When it comes to planning for a new post frame home, shouse or barndominium, there are a myriad of questions and concerns to be answered and pondered.

Or, at least I hope you are – rather than just stumbling in blindly!

Reader NICK in NORTH CAROLINA writes:

“Hi, I’m looking into options for building a post frame home in the coming year in NC and wanted to understand more of the details regarding you current building products and suggested techniques.  

Do you provide a means to support the posts on top of the concrete pillars with a bracket vs the post being embedded into the concrete?

Your current package only provides for insulation of the roof, no interior walls, correct?

Can another 2×6 skirt board be added to the inside of the building to isolate the concrete flooring from the post and to provide a cavity for insulation to be installed between the outside/inside girts?

Do you have a listing of contractors that are familiar with your products in given areas that could be used to build the structure?

If using the design service listed for $695, does that include the design for all interior walls/rooms/fixtures as well as electrical/plumbing/mechanical?

Thanks for any information you can provide.”

All good questions. In answer to them:

Yes we can provide plans with a third-party engineered design for bracket set columns, as well as brackets. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/05/sturdi-wall-plus-concrete-brackets/

We typically recommend using either a Reflective Radiant Barrier (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/05/effective-reflective-insulation/) between roof framing and roof steel, or using roof steel with factory applied Dripstop https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/11/drip-stop/

We can provide batt insulation for walls and/or ceilings, however there are more energy efficient methods of insulating https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/06/pole-barn-insulation-oh-so-confusing/

It (extra 2×6 interior splash plank) could, however there are structural advantages to having columns surrounded (constrained) on exterior splash plank interior. (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/11/importance-of-constrained-posts/) I’d recommend doing a Frost Protected Shallow Foundation post frame style instead: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/09/post-frame-frost-walls/

About Hansen BuildingsAlthough our buildings are designed for an average literate English speaking person to successfully construct their own building (most of them do, and do a wonderful job – because they will read and follow instructions), for those who do need an erector, in many areas we can provide contacts for you to vet.

Our floor plan and elevation package offer (http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/?fbclid=IwAR2ta5IFSxrltv5eAyBVmg-JUsoPfy9hbWtP86svOTPfG1q5pGmfhA7yd5Q)  includes all interior walls, rooms and fixtures. For an added fee you can include electrical/plumbing/mechanical (note: typically all of these last three services can usually be provided at no charge by subcontractors who will be doing these specific trades).

Please feel free to reach out to me at any time with questions. An answer to most questions can also be found at www.HansenPoleBuildings.com by clicking on SEARCH in the upper right hand corner of any page. Type in a word or two and hit ENTER and up pops relevant articles.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding Panels

Storage of Steel Roofing and Siding at the Job site 

All steel roofing and siding panel bundles are inspected and approved by manufacturer’s quality control inspectors before shipment. Inspect panels for any moisture content or shipping damage upon delivery and advise the materials carrier immediately.

Bare (non-painted) Galvalume sheet, like galvanized, is subject to wet storage staining and turns gray to black if moisture is trapped between coil laps, cut length sheets, or roll formed parts during shipping and storage. Steel mills treat Galvalume sheet to delay wet storage staining; however, take precautions to keep Galvalume sheeting dry at work site.

Jobsite storage of steel building panels (provided by Building Products Technical Committee of National Coil Coaters Association):

Two Rules to Live By:

1)  Keep job site storage time to a minimum with proper scheduling

2)  Keep panels dry.

“Moisture trapped within panel bundles can cause the finish to soften and become more susceptible to erection handling damage. Panels stored wet for extended periods in humid conditions will oxidize (rust). Such damage is avoidable with proper planning and practice.

Panel bundles should be stored under a roof  or at least, out of direct sunlight. Bundles should be slanted at an angle [from end to end] sufficient to facilitate drainage and high enough off the ground for good air movement all around. Do not use tight-fitting plastic-type tarpaulins as panel bundle covers. While they may provide protection from heavy downpours, they can also delay necessary ventilation and trap heat and moisture causing the so-called “greenhouse effect” that accelerates corrosion. Long panels must have additional support to prevent sagging and potential water accumulation in the sag.

If panel bundles arrive wet or become wet at the job site, break them open and allow them to dry completely.”

When moisture is found, besides breaking apart bundles, drain each panel and wipe dry. After dried, carefully re-stack panels and loosely recover allowing for ample air circulation.

Extended panel storage in a bundle is not recommended. Prevent bundled sheets from being in contact with accumulating water. Under no circumstance store sheets near or in contact with salt water, corrosive chemicals, ash, or fumes generated or released inside a building or nearby plants, foundries, plating works, kilns, fertilizer, and wet or green lumber.

Steel Roofing with Condenstop or Dripstop And Jobsite Storage  

Warning: Storing panel bundles prior to installation could allow moisture to become trapped between panels and may cause damage to panels. This moisture can originate from a variety of sources such as rain, high humidity or condensation. Panels should be stored in a dry location and installed as quickly as possible when arriving at the job site to prevent damage. If this is impossible, proper consideration should be given to separate panels to allow for air circulation prior to installation. Allowing moisture to become trapped within panel bundles can void all panel warranties.

This entry was posted in Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Steel Roofing & Siding, Ventilation, Barndominium and tagged , , , , on by .

Plastic Under Roof Steel?

Plastic Under Roof Steel?

Reader Loren is persistent, he wanted to ask a question in regards to placing plastic under roof steel to prevent condensation, however the wonderful world of technology was making it a challenge. Thinking – Loren emailed me directly.

Here are Loren’s own words:

“I’ve been trying to submit a question to the pole building guru for a while now with no success. Website keeps saying ‘invalid form’?  So, I was hoping this email could find its way to Mike, I’d really like for him to weigh in on it. Thanks!

I’ve been scouring your blog for weeks now looking at how to handle water vapor and condensation in my soon to be garage. I know to use Tyvek or similar between the metal siding and purlins, my question is in regards to the roof. I plan to insulate the ceiling (most likely blown in) in the next year or two, so would a good heavy plastic (6 mil) between the roof metal and purlins work for my moisture barrier rather than the foil bubble insulation?  Since I’ll have a finished/insulated ceiling and a well vented attic I was hoping to skip the insulative properties of the foil bubble and go straight plastic. Will that work in my case?  Or would this even be a good application for the felt backed roof metal?  I’ll also lay a well sealed plastic barrier under my slab. Thanks for all of your help via previous posts, just couldn’t find anything about using plastic under roofing.  I’m trying to build this garage the right way, but also keeping budget in mind. Thanks again!”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru responds:

Technology is great, when it works. Thank you for the heads up on the error message, our IT team is working on a fix now.

Plastic (visqueen) under your roof steel will not solve the condensation challenges. Instead you will have condensation on the underside of the visqueen. (to read up on the history of Visqueen and why not to use it under wall steel: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/07/moisture-barrier/)  In order to minimize (or ideally eliminate) potential condensation it requires airflow (vented eaves and ridge being the best combination) as well as a thermal break. While a reflective radiant barrier (aka – foil bubble, which is NOT insulation no matter how hard someone tries to convince you) will do the job as long as it has properly sealed overlaps and will be very cost effective, if it was my own building I would be looking at felt backed roof steel (Condenstop or Dripstop) due to the ease of installation.

For more information on Condenstop: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/.

Make sure to order trusses with raised heels, so you get the full attic insulation thickness across the entire ceiling. Take desired R value, divide by three and add two to get the height of the truss heels.

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Steel Roofing & Siding, Trusses and tagged , , , , , on by .

3M VHB Tape

3M™ VHB™ Tape

Reader WILLIAM in DYER writes:

“I’ve been researching pole buildings, and the weak point for putting one up seems to be the screws and washers.  Have you looked into using 3M™ VHB™ tape instead of screws and fasteners for attaching the metal exterior sheeting? What are the pros/cons of tape only? Thanks.”

Personally the only way the screws holding the steel roofing and siding on would be the weak point would be if the wrong product is being used, or the right product is being improperly installed.

Here is the scoop on VHB™ tape straight from 3M™:

Details

  • Fast and easy-to-use permanent bonding method provides high strength and long-term durability
  • Virtually invisible fastening keeps surfaces smooth
  • Can replace mechanical fasteners (rivets, welding, screws) or liquid adhesives
  • Black, 0.045 in (1.1 mm), modified acrylic adhesive and very conformable acrylic foam core bonds to a wide variety of substrates including powder coated paints and irregular surfaces
  • Eliminate drilling, grinding, refinishing, screwing, welding and clean-up
  • Creates a permanent seal against water, moisture and more by offering better gap filling capabilities
  • Pressure sensitive adhesive bonds on contact to provide immediate handling strength
  • Allows the use of thinner, lighter weight and dissimilar materials

 

Dream, Design, Deliver with our 3M™ VHB™ Tape 5952. It is a black, 0.045 in (1.1 mm) modified acrylic adhesive with a very conformable, foam core. It can replace rivets, welds and screws. The fast and easy to use permanent bonding method provides high strength and long-term durability. It offers design flexibility with its viscoelasticity and powerful ability to bond to a variety of surfaces.

Convenience Meets Extreme Bonding Power 
Our 3M™ VHB™ Tape consists of a durable acrylic adhesive with viscoelastic properties. This provides an extraordinarily strong double sided foam tape that adheres to a broad range of substrates, including aluminum, stainless steel, galvanized steel, composites, plastics, acrylic, polycarbonate, ABS and painted or sealed wood and concrete. Our bonding tapes provide excellent shear strength, conformability, surface adhesion and temperature resistance. They are commonly used in applications across a variety of markets including transportation, appliance, electronics, construction, sign and display and general industrial. Reliably bonds a variety of materials with strength and speed for permanent applications. 

Dream, Design, Deliver with the 5952 Family of 3M™ VHB™ Tapes 
The 5952 family of 3M™ VHB™ Tapes utilizes modified acrylic adhesive on both sides of a very conformable, adhesive foam core. The combination of strength, conformability and adhesion makes this family one of the most capable and well-rounded 3M™ VHB™ Tapes. It is specifically designed for good adhesion to high, medium and lower surface energy plastics and paints, metals and glass. Applications for this tape include bonding and sealing polycarbonate lens over LCD, signage and windows to post-painted control panels. 

An Unconventional Foam Tape 
We invented 3M™ VHB™ Tapes in 1980 as the first of their kind. These unique tapes combine conformability with a strong, permanent bond. The result is a family of extraordinarily strong tapes that adhere to a broad range of substrates. 3M™ VHB™ Tape is a proven alternative to screws, rivets, welds and other forms of mechanical fasteners. Skyscrapers, cell phones, electronic highway signs, refrigerators, architectural windows and more all rely on this specialty bonding tape for one or more steps in the assembly, mounting, fastening and sealing process. This trusted and reliable tape offers a consistent bond, outstanding durability and excellent solvent and moisture resistance. 3M stands by all of its products and is there to provide you with design guidance and technical support when you need it. 

Proven Reliability from 3M™ VHB™ Tapes 
3M™ VHB™ Tape offers a durable bond in a way that mechanical fasteners can’t. This tape enhances the appearance of finished goods by eliminating rivets and screws while providing immediate handling strength. In most cases, fastening with 3M™ VHB™ Tape is a quicker process than drilling, fastening, or using liquid adhesive. Our versatile line of tapes can be used indoors or outdoors in a variety of applications, including window, door and sign assembly, electronics, construction and countless other industrial applications. Chemically resistant as well as UV and temperature stable, 3M™ VHB™ Tape can withstand the heat of Dubai to the cold of Canada. The unique acrylic chemistry is extremely durable and resistant to change over time, making this a long-lasting and powerful tape you can trust. 

Bringing Better Ideas to the Surface through Science and Innovation 
In our 3M Industrial Adhesives and Tapes Division, we apply the science of adhesion to deliver innovative solutions that improve the design and manufacturing processes of companies around the world. In the end, our technologies help customers like you deliver competitive products to the market faster and more efficiently. 

Mike the Pole Barn Guru comments:

Why it might not be the best choice….

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

In order to utilize it with the steel panels, it would need to be tested for shear strength by an independent engineer. It would preclude the use of Building Wrap (like Tyvek) in walls, as well as radiant reflective barriers or Dripstop/Condenstop in roofs.

While it sounds like an excellent product, the cost along may prove prohibitive, as the lowest price I am seeing is somewhere around 70 cents per lineal foot, making it around 10 times as expensive as the diaphragm screws we provide and even more expensive than the smaller diameter lesser quality fasteners used by most post frame suppliers and builders.


 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Roofing Materials, Steel Roofing & Siding, Fasteners and tagged , , , , , on by .

Integral Condensation Control

Integral Condensation Control (I.C.C.) products are manufactured and distributed with trade names such as Condenstop (which I have written about previously: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/07/condenstop/) and Dripstop.

Here are a few words on Dripstop, recorded live at the NFBA Expo held recently in Nashville, Tennessee:

I.C.C. provides drip prevention which is integral to steel roofing and is aimed at saving installation time and labor. I.C.C. is comprised of a polyester fabric with an adhesive glue layer which allows it to be adhered to the washcoat (the underside) of steel roofing panels. The fabric is attached to the sheet metal as it is being unwrapped from the coil and is roll formed with the panel, allowing the steel roofing to arrive on the jobsite ready for immediate installation.

Steel roofing with I.C.C. addresses drip prevention in a new way. By providing a wicking material to retain the moisture, condensation is no longer the enemy. This product works with the natural condensation cycle to prevent dripping and is far more durable than barriers. No additional products or inventory are necessary, and because I.C.C. is factory-applied, no additional jobsite labor is required. No need to worry about dragging around rolls of reflective or metal building insulation, just install the roof and get the job done.

To better understand how this product works, we must first discuss why condensation and dripping happen in the first place. When atmospheric conditions reach the dew point, air contains the maximum amount of moisture it can retain at its temperature. This is known as 100% relative humidity. Since cool air is unable to retain as much moisture as warm air, any drop in temperature from contact with a cooler surface essentially “wrings” the moisture out of the air. This is why fogging (condensation) is caused by the warm, moist air in our breath hitting a colder pane of glass. As the glass cools the warm, moist air contacting it, the moisture in our breath is “wrung” out.

As noted above, where warm air meets cool surfaces, the moisture in this air will often condense to the surface and form droplets. When exterior air cools steel cladding below the building’s interior temperature, the steel can provide this surface. Once condensation begins to take place, the droplets formed will combine as they contact one another, continuing to do so until they are too large to be supported by the liquid’s surface tension. At this point, dripping will occur, essentially raining on the structure’s contents.

Because some people are unaware of this process, many steel roofed post frame building owners are convinced all metal roofing leaks – a make believe ‘fact’ which can deter them from an otherwise superior product as well as cause headaches for both builders and post frame building kit package suppliers. In the past, the solution to this has been to provide a thermal break between the structure’s interior and the steel roofing to isolate the warm moist air inside the building from the underside of the cooler roof steel.

In theory, this is an excellent idea. In practice, it requires additional inventory and a large amount of additional labor. Meanwhile, the steel roofing waits to be installed. These problems are compounded by the fact barrier products are generally hard to handle and install in even mildly inclement weather.

Steel roofing with I.C.C. eliminates these delays, reduces inventory and simplifies construction without sacrificing drip-preventing performance.

The core of I.C.C. is a polyester fleece. When this material is adhered to steel panels, it greatly increases the surface area from moisture to cling to after condensing. The fleece provides hundreds of fibers per square inch for droplets to stick to, thereby greatly increasing the “grip” they have on the interior of the cladding. Because of this, a twelve foot panel can retain over half a gallon of condensed moisture.

 Steel roofing with I.C.C. is well suited for a wide variety of applications. Similar products have been available for over 15 years in Europe and have provided successful service on every continent and in nearly every climate in countless applications. Steel roofing with I.C.C. is well suited for self-storage, animal confinement, garages, grain storage, car ports, barns, aircraft hangars, stadiums and literally any other place where condensation and drip prevention are of concern.

The I.C.C. fabric requires contact with air to function properly, therefore it is not recommended for closed-decking applications. Also, it is not meant to function as insulation due to its low R-value.

In closed wall applications, any edges exposed to the exterior of a structure (i.e. the eaves), should be sealed to prevent moisture from seeping into the structure through the fabric.

The additional thickness of the I.C.C. fabric changes the roll-forming characteristics of steel panels, giving panels a slight “barrel-roll”. This effect is limited to an inch of curl up at the sides when the panel lays color up on a flat surface and provides no additional challenges for installation. Another effect is the reduction of smoothness at all bends in the panel. Again, this has no effect on performance of either panel or fabric. The barrel-roll is imperceptible after installation and the bend texture is indiscernible at distances greater than an arm’s length.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Steel Roofing & Siding and tagged , , , on by .

Pole Barn Savings Part II

Eight Nifty Tricks to Save Money When Building a Pole Barn (reprised)

This is Part II of a two part series on pole barn savings through material and feature choices. Bret Buelo of Wick Buildings® wrote an article by this title last year, some of the items I agree with, some not so much. This is my “take” on his points. If you missed the first part – back up one day and read the first 4 points. To continue…

Hanger Sliding Door“5. Install a sliding door. They’re less costly than overhead garage doors or hydraulic doors for equipment access doors that you don’t use frequently.

And today’s slide doors, even large ones, are much easier to open and close than your Dad’s old slide door due to improvements in tracks, trolleys, materials and construction techniques.”

While sliding door systems have improved immensely, for most people the lack of convenience and security does not outweigh the savings. For horse barns or purely agricultural structures, they might very well be the best solution. As for cost, relatively small sized overhead doors can actually be less expensive than sliding doors. Overhead doors can also be provided as insulated and electric operators are reasonably added. For those in snow country, having to shovel the snow away for those frozen door tracks on a sliding door is still an obstacle, while an overhead door rolls right up the tracks.

“6. Use DripStop for condensation control. To prevent condensation from forming or dripping on high-end equipment, purchase DripStop.

It’s not an insulation, yet it effectively controls condensation in non-insulated buildings. It works well for mini warehouses, animal confinement or any cold-storage building in which you wish to deter moisture from dripping on your stuff.

DripStop can potentially save you thousands of dollars in comparison to using ceiling insulation.”

Steel roofing is prone to issues involving condensation. DripStop is not going to be as cost effective (from a material only standpoint) as reflective insulation: (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2011/11/reflective-insulation/).

Where the savings is going to come from is in labor, read more about this here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2014/07/condenstop/

“7. Choose an interior liner system over a drywall finish. A good tip for many buildings; adding a steel flushwall liner system interior to your building can be much less expensive than finishing your building with drywall.

You’ll get a durable interior without all the hassle of hanging and finishing drywall.”

I am going to disagree with this design solution entirely. Ever try to hang a cabinet or a shelf on walls with a steel liner? And steel liner ceilings have some of their own issues: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2013/08/steel-liner-panels/

As to costs, I checked today’s prices at The Home Depot® where ½” USG Sheetrock® is 27 cents per square foot. Steel liner panels 95 cents per square foot. I’d really like to see where the savings is in his argument.

“8. Weigh your options on soundproofing materials. Some people will install a sound-absorbing ceiling material, but that isn’t always the most cost-effective option to reduce noise.

A perforated steel liner with insulation behind it can be a better way to reduce noise, especially in commercial and shop environments.”

From over 16,000 buildings of experience, sound-absorption is way down the list of priorities. In only a single case have I been involved in a project with perforated steel liner panels. It happened to have been specified by an architect who didn’t know better (most possibly it was a result of being influenced by a particular builder who pushed the product). It was to be installed over 7/16” OSB, in a situation which would often result in the liner panels being hosed down with water…..which would go through the perforations…..getting the OSB wet. Anyone other than me seeing potential problems with this as a design solution?

In a future article – I’ll highlight some of my own pole barn savings “tricks” and advice for a new post frame building. Stay tuned!

This entry was posted in Uncategorized, Pole Barn Design, Budget and tagged , , , , , on by .
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