Tag Archives: dry set brackets

Dry Set Brackets, Snow Loads, and Winch Boxes

The Pole Barn Guru continues to be inundated with reader questions, so we will be adding some mid-week PBG responses. First off is a questions about attaching posts to a square footing with dry set brackets, whether or not a Hansen Building can withstand a 40lb snow load (they most certainly can), and the use of winch boxes to raise trusses.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can poles or square posts be attached to cement footings? 30 years ago we started working on a post and beam barn, cutting traditional joints, etc. Well that project was not completed you can guess why. Now we still have the footings that were going to have sills attached and the timber frame joined to that. My other half thinks we can essentially build a pole barn by bolting posts to footings. I have my doubts because as I understand it part of the stability of the pole barn depends on the integrity of the pole and its depth in the ground.

Thanks, MIMI in CATHARPIN

DEAR MIMI: There are dry set brackets designed for attaching post frame building columns to existing concrete, however our third party engineers will no longer certify them for use. Here is some further information on them: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/12/dry-set-column-anchors/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do your buildings support a snow load of 60+ lbs per square foot? JARED in BONE

DEAR JARED: Every Hansen Pole Building is designed and engineered specifically for loading (wind, snow and seismic) conditions at your particular site. We have provided buildings with ground snow loads in excess of 400 psf (pounds per square foot), so your snow load should not be a difficulty. A Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer will be reaching out to you for further information and to assist you with your new post frame building.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am working with Mindi on my quote. I found info on using hand crank winches to raise preconstructed sections of the trusses and purlins. In the different articles, the construct a steel box that the winch is attached to and the box/winch is placed on the top of the poles. If I use wet set brackets, how much extra length is provided on the column? Would I be able to use the winch method with columns bolted into brackets? If I have a 24 ft span and 3:12 pitch, about how much would one truss weigh?
Thanks, LEE in HUNTSVILLE

DEAR LEE: Kudos for you to look to using winch boxes! Your savings in time (and safety) will more than pay to build a set of boxes. With wet set brackets you might want to have Mindi add two feet in length to your truss supporting columns, otherwise you will end up very tight for column above trusses. Cranking up trusses with purlins attached works equally well with either embedded or wet set brackets. Two pairs of trusses and all purlins for a bay will weigh somewhere under a thousand pounds.

 

Bolt to Slab, Metal Distortion, and a Moisture Drip Issue

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers questions about use of dry-set brackets to existing slab, spray foam distorting metal, and a problem with drip when temperature is just right.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How thick does the edge of concrete need to be to support a pole barn if using the bolt on top of existing slab? CHRIS

DEAR CHRIS: Our independent third party engineers have determined brackets dry mounted to existing concrete slabs are not a good structural solution and will no longer certify such connections. We would recommend either saw cutting holes in your slab to use either embedded or wet set bracket mounted columns, or to place columns around your slab’s perimeter.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Why does the spray foam distort the metal? LARRY in KALISPELL

DEAR LARRY: Properly installed closed cell spray foam insulation should not distort either roof or wall steel. My lovely bride and I used it when we added an elevator shaft on the rear endwall of our shouse and it was used to insulate a recent approximately 3000 square foot addition to Hansen Pole Buildings’ warehouse. Both were done with no noticeable steel deflection. Here is some further reading on this subject https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/04/spray-foam-insulation-3/.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We have a moisture problem in our 36×45 pole barn when the weather is right it drips when the sun warms it up. I understand I need more ventilation. Along the top center ridge there is formed foam gasketing like you have talked about. Some of it is falling out. Can I remove that to improve ventilation or is that there to stop rain or snow from coming in? Really appreciate many of the tips you have on your site. RON in MAZOMANIE

DEAR RON: I will suspect your dripping issue is due to there being no thermal break between your building’s roof framing and roof steel. If this is your circumstance, your only real solution is to have two inches of closed cell spray foam applied to inside of your roofing. While adding ventilation may remediate some of your challenge, there is still going to be some degree of warm moist air trapped inside.

In order to adequately ventilate, you will need to have both an air intake and an exhaust. You could remove your ridge cap and replace your present formed ridge closures with a similar vented material (vented closures). For air intakes, if your building does not have vented sidewall overhangs, you could add gable vents at each end.

 

Alternative Siding, Building on Slab, and Ceiling Liner Loading

Today’s Pole Barn Guru answers questions about alternative siding and roofing, whether one can build on an existing slab, and if a ceiling liner can hold insulation.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you build me a steel wall inside and vinyl siding on the outside with asphalt shingles? PAUL in BLUE GRASS

DEAR PAUL: A beauty of post-frame construction is we can design for virtually any combination of roofing and siding materials you may desire. While I am not a huge fan of steel liner panels, yes – your building can have them along with your vinyl siding. Steel liner panels end up posing challenges with trying to attach things to them, like work benches, cabinets, shelves, etc. Gypsum wallboard (sheet rock) is generally far more affordable as well as easier to make attachments to. And, if 5/8” Type X is used, affords some fire protection.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can Hansen build the barn on top of an existing slab? CLYDE in BELLVILLE

DEAR CLYDE: Yes, we can design a complete post frame building kit package to be attached to your existing concrete slab. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/12/dry-set-column-anchors/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My trusses are 8 feet on center will the metal ceiling liner span that 8 feet without sagging if I blow in fiberglass insulation? RODNEY in LAKE ELMO

DEAR RODNEY: No, steel liner panels will sag across an eight foot span. If your building’s roof trusses are not designed to support weight of a ceiling load, then they will sag as well – and, in combination with a snow load, may fail.

 

 

 

Dry Set Brackets on Foundation, Unfinished Jobs, and Engineering

Today the Pole Barn Guru discusses rebuilding on an existing concrete foundation with dry set brackets, unfinished work, and proper engineering.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’ve recently torn down an old machine shed that still has very good 8″ wide by 24″ deep cement foundation walls that I’m thinking about using to erect a new pole barn/machine shed.  Only about 6″ out of the 24″ of the foundation wall is above ground.  Can I erect 4×6 or 6×6 posts to the existing foundation or should I use more of the stick framing techniques?

One additional question on this:  The previous machine shed had a sole plate on the foundation.  Would you normally use a sole plate in a situation like this as well or just attach directly to the concrete? What’s the advantage of using a sole plate?  If I were to use a sole plate and anchored it to the foundation, and then put the posts on top of the sole pate, how would you recommend attach them to the sole plate?

Thanks, MICHAEL

DEAR MICHAEL: Regardless of design solution chosen, it would prudent to have your existing foundation reviewed by a competent local engineer for adequacy. In many areas frost depths are deeper than your foundation, rendering it unable to be reused. Provided your concrete has sufficient depth and strength, a post frame building can easily be mounted to it using dry set anchors (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/12/dry-set-column-anchors/).

Bracket manufacturer shows anchors mounted directly to concrete walls and I would imagine this achieves best possible connection without creation of additional hinge points due to sill plate thickness. Sill plate still in place upon top of existing concrete wall, then I would recommend it being cut away where brackets will be located.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I had contacted you before regarding a kit but decided I didn’t want to get into a project that big.  I contracted with a local builder from Idaho Falls, Idaho to build my building in Afton, Wyoming.  He seems to have disappeared after setting the posts and framing in the wall girts.  Since he builds very similar to your kits I thought I might inquire to see if you could sell me a partial kit.  What I have is 6×6 posts on 12 foot centers and as I already said, they are framed in with 2×6 girts.

contractors-workingI noticed on your web site you have some buildings in Wyoming.  Do you use vendors for regional distribution?  I can’t imagine shipping everything from MN. JOHN in AFTON

DEAR JOHN: I hate it when a builder pulls things like this it just makes our entire industry look bad. We’ll need specifics of dimensions and features to price balance of your building, as well as what materials you actually have delivered. We have distribution agreements with vendors all across country in order to maximize possible providers and minimize costs of shipping. Your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer will be reaching out to you shortly.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: For the post on top of a foundation wall would you recommend 4″ x 6″ or 6″ x 6″ post and would they need to be treated?

Thanks, MICHAEL

DEAR MICHAEL: Second part of your question gets answered first, it would only need to be pressure preservative treated if wood was in contact with concrete. As most commonly available timber sizes are pressure preservative treated, you might very well find treated timbers to be both more readily available and more cost affordable.

As far as size of column – this should be determined by an engineer hired to design your building (or engineered plans provided by your post frame building kit provider). Post size will be influenced by heights of both walls and roof, design wind speeds and wind exposure, snow loads and many other variables. Please do not just take advice from some layperson when it comes to your building’s structural design, rely upon a registered design professional.

 

 

Dear Pole Barn Guru: Can I Use Concrete Brackets with a Foundation?

New!  The Pole Barn Guru’s mailbox is overflowing with questions.  Due to high demand, he is answering questions on Saturdays as well as Mondays.

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you do metal plates with anchor bolts to mount the poles to? CAN I IN CANTON

DEAR CAN I: I will assume you want to either mount columns to an existing foundation wall, or to pour concrete brackets into a future foundation wall. If so, then the answer is yes, we can provide wet-set or dry-set concrete brackets for either situation. For more information on specifics, please read:

https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/09/concrete-brackets-2/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: In a previous article, you discuss sliding doors for hangars and mention that you will be writing an article about better options (I assume to include bi-fold doors, stack doors, etc).  Did I miss this article in your index, or have you not yet written it?  Would be very interested in your ideas, as I am looking at constructing a 50×60 hangar with a 40-45’x12′ hangar door.  Have not yet decided whether I will pursue this in a steel or wood frame, thought budget may determine that.  The building is to be located in Boise, ID.  Thanks for your time. GLIDING IN GOLDSBORO

 DEAR GLIDING: You’ve caught me! So many topics to write about, and just not enough days of the week to post them. I’ve just returned from the 2014 Frame Building Expo, where Schweiss Doors (https://www.SchweissDoors.com) was one of the exhibitors. Keep a watchful eye open, as I will be writing about their products and other hangar door options in the very near future.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How do I insulate a pole barn cost effectively. COLD IN CONNECTICUT

DEAR COLD: This is one of the most often overlooked areas when people are planning their new pole buildings (as well as one of the most asked questions after construction). Provided you are still in the planning phase, here is some good reading on the subject: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/04/climate-controlled/