Tag Archives: horse barn

Post Frame Possibilities, Engineer Sealed Plans in Canada, and Horse Barn Apartment

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru tackles reader questions about the possibilities of post frame wall height with columns atop a concrete wall, interpreting client needs into engineer sealed drawings, and the scope of a barn to accommodate horses on the main level and an apartment above.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Could I build tall (25 ft) walls with poles at 6ft on center on top of an 8″ thick concrete wall, with anchors as required? I have never built with pole system; always stick framed, but I need the larger spans for tempered glass walls. Thanks for your advice. TARUNO in LA HONDA

DEAR TARUNO: In answer to your question….maybe. With 25 foot tall walls, an eight-inch thick concrete wall may not prove to be adequate. We can incorporate ICC-ESR approved wet set brackets into top of your concrete, in order to attach columns. Walls would need to be checked, by our engineers, to assure they would have adequate amounts of sheathing to properly transfer shear loads from roof to ground. We are able to provide columns up to 60 foot lengths, so your wall height should not pose a challenge.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is your company or you capable of interpreting customer wants into engineered drawings for permits compliance? MARTY in CALGARY

 

DEAR MARTY: This is exactly what we do for roughly a hundred new clients every day, seven days a week, in all 50 U.S. states. Unfortunately for you, we do not currently have Candian Building Codes programmed into our system.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How tall would a barn have to be to accommodate horses on the bottom and eventually a 2 bed 2 bath apartment in the loft? JUSTINE in LITTLETON

DEAR JUSTINE: Before we get too deep into this, some things to consider: living above horses you will be faced with dust, odors, noise, insects and rodents. Most jurisdictions will require a two-hour fire separation between living and barn spaces, this means you have to have outside stairs and all structural supports for second floor need to be two-hour fire protected as well. You will have stairs to negotiate. Insurance is going to be very expensive. On to your question: Horses should have 10 feet of headroom, then thickness of your floor, 8 feet (or more) of ceiling height for your living space, then thickness of your roof system (raised heel trusses to blow in full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall will be nearly two feet thick). When all is said and done, you are looking at roughly a 22 foot eave height. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/05/how-tall-should-my-eave-height-be-for-two-stories/

Ceiling Insulation, Truss Spacing, and Custom Multi-use Barn

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about best way to insulate a vaulted ceiling, truss spacing, and the possibility of adding a small living quarter to a horse barn.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: With a vaulted ceiling, how do you insulate it if you plan to spray the tin roof with closed cell foam. Was planning on bat insulation on the lower cords of the trusses if needed. what about venting if you spray foam the tin roof? CHRIS in DORCHESTER

DEAR CHRIS: Saline County is located in Climate Zone 5A. As such conditioned buildings require R 60 attic insulation.

You can either:

Have a conditioned attic space – using closed cell spray foam at least two inches thick against underside of roof deck, then adding open cell spray foam or unfaced rock wool batts to get to required R value. This assembly will not be ventilated.

Or

An unconditioned attic. If you have no other method of condensation control, then again place two inches of closed cell spray foam directly to roof steel interior. Vent eaves and ridge, then blow in R 60 of fiberglass across attic. Insulation baffles will need to be placed at eaves to allow for at least an inch of unobstructed air flow above blown in insulation.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello Mike, I have a question regarding a post frame building I would like to build. the size is 40′ x 32′ x 16′ with 6/12 roof pitch. I am planning to use trusses at 2′ foot centers. my question is regarding using 3 tab composition shingles for my roof covering (I have a HOA that will not allow metal roofs), what special considerations might I need to take with respect to where the trusses attach to the top of the post frame wall? the posts will be at 8′ centers and standard girts installed. I was thinking that perhaps increasing the dimensions of the top girt would be necessary. I would appreciate your thoughts on my intentions. I have enjoyed your YouTube videos as well. Sincerely MARK in CODY

Ask The Pole Barn GuruDEAR MARK: Thank you for your kind words about our YouTube videos. https://www.youtube.com/user/HansenBuildings
Personally, I would place double trusses to bear directly upon columns spaced every 10 to 12 feet with purlins on edge, joist hung between truss top chords. This design results in fewest number of holes needing to be dug, as well as fewest pieces of materials to have to install. It also allows for wider door openings.

Doing as you propose, truss carriers (headers between columns to support trusses) would need to be adequately sized by your building’s engineer in order to carry imposed loads without failure or undue deflection.

 

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you all have barns with living quarters? Not looking for a barndominium, per se, but a restroom with a shower and a living room in addition to 4 stalls and a tack room. we plan on staying there at first while we build the main house on the property, then use for guests or storage. SARAH in SARASOTA

DEAR SARAH: We have provided a plethora of barns with living quarters and every building we provide is custom designed to best meet our client’s wants and needs.

Typically, you should expect to have to two-hour fire separate barn from living area, meaning you cannot go directly from one occupancy to another without going outside in order to do so. For this reason, many of our clients have opted to have a roof only breezeway area between these dissimilar occupancies.

Basement Addition, Gambrel Modification, and a New Home

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the addition of a basement to an existing pole barn, the possibility of modifying an existing gambrel style horse barn, and the connection of a house and garage.

Ask The Pole Barn GuruDEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am considering building a partial basement under my existing Pole Barn Building (agricultural). There is currently even no slab there. I spoke to different contractors and got very different answers related to the maximum size of the basement. I learnt already that I need to step far away from the existing walls for safe slope excavation, but would love to hear your opinion if I can start digging 1:1 starting just from the wall, or need to maintain some additional horizontal distance before sloping. The building is 44’x60′, posts embed is 5′, and I would love to have 25’x45′ basement there. The worry which the most reasonable contractor has is that when excavating 1:1 starting from the wall edge, it may be not enough soil left to keep posts in place. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated! Thank you, ADAM in ROCHESTER

DEAR ADAM: Rather than reliance upon any contractor, I would recommend you contact an expert. Google search for “Geotechnical Engineers near Rochester, MN”. There are several listed. They should be able to visit your building site and develop an approach to safely maximize your proposed partial basement space, without compromising structural integrity of your existing building, based upon actual soils at your site.  Any other approach is going to merely be a guess.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I have a gambrel barn on the property I’m buying and am trying to figure out my options to configure it for my horses. I’m trying to find a structural engineer with some availability but in the meantime I wanted to ask for your opinion.It’s roughly 24′ x 32′. The side columns are spaced about 6′ and the ends have ~10′ door openings. I attempted to sketch it. I’d like to understand why the 4 center columns are clustered in the middle of the barn at 12′ from the ends and 6′ from the sides (the existing modular stalls are 12×12, not sure which came first). Is that normal spacing for a smaller building or gambrel style buildings? I’m guessing they are structural, but is there a chance they are just holding up the hay loft? Unfortunately I haven’t been up there yet to see what the trusses or rafters look like. Thanks for your insight! PAULA in WALDOBORO

DEAR PAULA: Taking an educated guess here – if columns are 6′ from each 32′ sidewall, then (without looking at your actual roof system) I would surmise they support not only loft, but also reach up to connect with pitch break of your gambrel roof. Even if they are only supporting building’s loft – they are then structural and should not be removed without review from a Registered Professional Engineer.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Planning to build a post frame house with an attached garage. Garage will sit perpendicular to the house, this giving me two different roof lines. My question is in where the endwall of the house and the sidewall of the garage meet. What does the endwall truss of the house attach to? I don’t believe the answer is having columns for the endwall and the sidewall. I assume they share a common column. Does the end truss run along the sidewall columns of the garage and I have to block beneath the truss for support? I have searched and searched for this online but have turned up empty handed. NUNTER in NASHVILLE

DEAR HUNTER: I will assume eave height of your garage is greater than eave height of house. Endwall truss of house will then be attached to face of sidewall columns of garage. In most instances, this truss can be designed with vertical webs to coincide with locations of columns other than at truss heels, allowing for adequate nailing to resist gravity loads. It may be necessary to have bearing blocks below truss heels, however all of these connections and required nails will be outlined on your engineer sealed structural building plans.

Should you be considering ordering a building from a provider other than Hansen Pole Buildings, make sure they are accounting for added weight of snow sliding off garage roof onto house, as well as unbalanced drift loads on each side of ridge lines (both of these are frequently overlooked by most providers).

 

 

 

A Future House, Eave Height, and Pricing for Horse Arena

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about an ideal pole barn to convert into a house, the height of the exterior wall with an 11′ interior ceiling height, how clear span affects the costs of a horse arena.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good Morning, We just put in an offer on land in Chattaroy, WA. The parcel number is 39261.0106.  Ideally, we will like to build a pole barn structure and then convert it into a house. I was wondering if you offered a service where someone could inspect the land to make sure it was buildable for this sort of structure. 

Also, do you offer a military and/or teacher discount (I work at DPMS… can’t hurt to ask, right!). We have 20 days to get the testing done. I appreciate your time and your response!
Have a great day! EMILY in CHATTAROY

DEAR EMILY: We have provided our fully engineered custom designed post frame buildings on virtually every imaginable type of building site in all 50 states. As Eastern Washington’s largest post frame building contractor in the 1990’s, my firm erected hundreds of buildings annually in Spokane County, many in Chattaroy. Unless you have a truly unusual circumstance, a post frame (pole barn) structure should be ideal for this parcel. We would recommend you have it permitted as a R-3 (residential) use structure so you do not have future challenges.

Hopefully your offer is subject to being able to pass a perc test for a future septic system, as if anything would be a stumbling point, this could be it.

Please reach out to me any time with questions.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If my ceiling is 11′ tall, how tall are my outside side walls to the bottom of the eve? GREG in COLUMBUS

DEAR GREG: Depending upon your building’s truss span, in most instances a 12 foot tall eave height will get you an 11 foot finished ceiling. Here is some extended reading on this subject https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/02/eave-height-2/.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I know the width of a pole barn has a drastic impact on price but does the increase in price go up steadily or are there certain widths that jump the price up more drastically?

I am planning to build a horse back riding arena and am deciding between the following widths: 60′ vs 66′ vs 70′ vs 72′ vs 80′

I know from 60′ to 80′ there is a huge jump in price (about $30,000 roughly based on the quotes I’ve gotten so far), but does it go up equally for each step up in size? Does being a multiple of 12′ vs 10′ make a difference? SARA in DAYTON

DEAR SARA: Our oldest daughter Bailey is a highly successful Walking Horse trainer in Shelbyville, Tennessee. She is having a new home constructed currently on acreage and had asked Dad to check out arena prices for her. I priced 60′ x 120′, 70′ x 140′ and 80′ x 160′ buildings, all with identical features. Surprisingly to me, they were all within pennies per square foot of being equal! Being as you are in a more snow sensitive area, I would suspect your pricing curve to have more of a gradual increase as spans increase from 60 feet.

In order to get some exact figures, a Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer will be reaching out to you. Our system has an ability to adjust column and truss spacing to provide a most economical design solution at any span. Meanwhile – here is some extended reading for you https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/the-perfect-indoor-riding-arena/.

 

 

 

 

Horse Barn on a Budget

Affordable horse barnAny sort of construction project can feel overwhelming. From design to budget to execution, the process can cause strain and stress on even the best contractor. If regular projects weren’t difficult enough, consider horse barn construction and the process of putting together something that is supposed to house multiple 1,000 pound animals. For a construction project that seems so daunting, most would elect to hire a team of professionals.  Unfortunately, building a horse barn is expensive, and most of us don’t have the extra cash lying around to hire a contractor. So you’re left with a project so grandiose that it would make even the expert DIY-er cringe. What’s the best way to tackle a project this size? Simple answer: a horse pole barn kit.

What is a Pole Barn?

A pole barn will offer you the same style, size, and efficiency of any other barn structure without the contractor, and most importantly, for less cash. No style is out of the question when you elect to build a pole barn from a kit. Yes folks, these are not one-size-fits-all–you have options! From monitor to gable style barns, there is no style or feature you can’t find in a horse pole barn kit. Want grid horse flooring? Not a problem. You can still make your barn fit your needs, just with a little manufactured help.

Why should I Consider It?

This handy alternative to building a typical horse barn will also save you tons of time. No looking for a contractor, pouring a foundation, or hiring a construction crew. The basic idea is that you’re putting together a giant puzzle. All the pieces you need come manufactured for you, and you simply put them together. I know what you’re thinking: putting together manufactured pieces sounds like my last Ikea adventure from hell. Let me reassure you, this isn’t the case. Directions do not come in Swedish and putting it together will not cause any strain on your marriage. The idea behind these pole barn kits is that you can quickly provide a quality home for your horses, and not lose your entire savings in the process.

What’s It Really Going to Cost Me?

So let’s compare a few numbers. Say we are going to build a normal horse barn the good old fashioned way. This method will typically cost you about $45 a square foot. In contrast, a pole barn kit for your horses will generally run you anywhere from $7 – $25 a square foot. Potentially could save you some $20 per square foot! And on top of that, you don’t have to pay anyone for labor. Not having to pay a contractor or a construction crew will significantly lower the cost of building your barn.

Bottom Line…

If you’re in the market for a horse barn, pole barn kits are definitely something to be considered. There are hundreds of ways to personalize a prefab horse barn to fit your needs. With an already costly project, saving cash anyway you can is a must, and a manufactured pole barn may be the answer. If you have any questions or are ready to start designing your affordable horse barn, contact the experts at Hansen Pole Buildings and get planning!

Moving Sliding Doors to Inside of Building

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

Pole Barn Guru BlogDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, we have a problem with our sliding barn doors hanging up on the siding and getting froze into the ice/snow or stuck in mud. Is there any reason to not relocate them inside the barn? Our barn has a concrete floor but the outside approach is dirt and grass. Moving the track and (2) doors inside would prevent snow and mud from interfering with opening and seems to be a win win. We have just never seen this done before. Thanks for your time! BRANDONN IN MUSKEGON

DEAR BRANDONN: Your situation is a prime example of why I try to discourage the use of sliding doors in snow country. In most instances sectional overhead doors are a much better design solution.

Most clients with sliding doors do not want to mount them on the inside because they do not want to sacrifice the wall space. Nothing can be hung or placed against the interior of the wall in the direction the door (or doors) slide.

In many instances exterior sliding doors can be taller than interior sliding doors, as the interior doors must hang below the bottom chord of the trusses. This may be an issue in your case.

As far as relocating – if it was my own building I would want to re-side this wall, to eliminate the slot in the siding where the track board currently resides. Most of the balance of the expense (or time) will come from labor. But yes, you can move them, with the above considerations in mind.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much a square foot for a horse area that is 50’wx128’Lx14′ eave height, metal painted siding and white metal roof with an 8×10, 10×10 and 12×16 roll up metal insulated doors with 2 man doors, 8-4’x6′ sliding double pane windows, and an 8×8 tack room? JOHN IN GARDEN CITY

DEAR JOHN: Thank you very much for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. While we appreciate you having worked out so many of the dimensional details, as well as doors and windows, it is always best to discuss your exact building needs with one of our Building Designers at (866)200-9657. Every quote is free, and your Building Designer will contact you as much – or as little as you wish.

Your request for a tack room leads me to believe some portion of this building may eventually have some stalls in it. If so, we can perhaps make some suggestions as to size and locations which would give you the most bang for your investment.

I always encourage horse enthusiasts to read through some of the most relevant articles on equestrian facilities, prior to getting ideas “set in stone”.

Here are a few:

Arenas: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/the-perfect-indoor-riding-arena/

Stalls: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/12/horse-stalls/

Aisleways: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/12/horse-aisleway/

Ventilation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/11/horse-barn-ventilation/

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Could you tell me how tall are the side walls on project 04-0509 please? If I wanted to build a combo workshop and home, a home with two floors, how tall of a side wall do you recommend? If I got a quote from you for 16′ tall building, 60 x 40.  How much of a difference is it to change it to 18′ side walls.  Or can I get two floors for my house out of a sixteen footer?  Please advise. Thank you. PAUL IN MECHANICSBURG

DEAR PAUL: The walls on Project 04-0509 are 18 feet tall, which is the bare minimum needed to get two full eight foot tall ceilings. You need to account for the thickness of a nominal four inch thick concrete slab, the thickness of the floor system (usually around a foot) and the thickness of the roof system (always at least six inches). In order to get the full thickness of attic insulation from wall to wall, I recommend using raised heel trusses (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/), which means you will generally need to add yet another foot to the eave height.

Keep in mind – fire separation requirements between mixed uses (shop and living areas), which will entail a minimum of one-hour fire resistance.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much does a pole barn materials weigh? 30×40 x12 DONALD IN LIBERTY

DEAR DONALD: Obviously the features of any given building will change the weight. For the dimensions you have mentioned, with average features, expect it to weigh in at about 8,000 pounds.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

Pole and Raftered Grid Stall Barns

So many considerations go into the proper design of horse stall barns. Having a family expert (my professional horse trainer daughter Bailey) keeps me on my toes when it comes to giving advice.

One crucial component of good horse health is air-flow and circulation. Besides designing stall barns for good ventilation with air intakes (such as vinyl vented soffits) and an outlet (vented ridge), you must make sure you don’t impede air flow.

A simple and cost effective method is to build what is known as a “grid barn”. The grid is formed by placing interior columns in a grid formation, aligning them with the sidewall and endwall columns. Most common is on 12 foot increments. This allows for 12 foot square stalls to be constructed, using the interior and exterior columns as corners for stalls, tack and feed rooms.

The interior columns are extended upward to meet the roof line. Rather than using trusses to support the roof system, rafters are placed to align with the columns. Depending upon snow load, these rafters may be large dimensional lumber (multiple 2×10 or 2×12 members), or Laminated Veneer Lumber (LVLs).

Actual airflow studies have shown that even “open web” prefabricated roof trusses impede the smooth air flow within a building. The use of rafters (which follow the slope of the roof) creates a clean, open interior allowing for unobstructed air flow.

Besides forming strong corners for stalls (with the columns fully tied into the roof system) and minimizing airflow restrictions, other side benefits are gained. The increased height above aisleways allows for taller doors to be placed on gable endwalls, without the truss bottom chords in the way.

The interior columns also allow for loft areas to be constructed, without being impeded by trusses. A horse barn loft can be used for hay storage, a place to put seldom used tack, or (if height allows) space for offices or an apartment.

Most common widths are 36 foot (which allows for stalls on each side of a central aisleway) and 72 foot (stalls, aisleway, back to back stalls, aisleway, stalls). Lengths are only limited by available space and budget.

When planning a new stall barn, ample consideration should always be given to a pole and raftered grid barn.  It may prove to be the ideal solution to solve several problems at the same time.