Local Lumberyard Quote

Local Lumberyard + Pole Barns = Scary

Yes, the title looks to be a simple math equation. The problem with math equations is, not very many people can actually do them – at least not when they fly a desk at the local lumber dealer.

Case in point –XYZ Lumberyard with multiple state locations. (name withheld to protect the innocent).

Earlier this year, they quoted a pole barn kit package to one of our clients – 60 feet wide by 96 feet long with a 16 foot eave height. Their price was a lot lower than what one of our Hansen Pole Buildings Designers had arrived at. The client forwarded to us the quote from the local lumber supplier so we could do a comparison.

XYZ Lumberyard’s design solution was to place a column every 10 feet with single trusses five foot on center in between the columns on “truss carriers” (basically headers). I put the same information into our state-of-the-art post frame design software and came up with sidewall columns as 6×8 Southern Pine, stressed to 60.5% of capacity.

Interestingly XYZ Lumberyard was counting on 5×5 columns to carry the loads. The 6×8 calculated by our design program happens to be 339% stronger against bending than a 5×5.

The end result, at the building’s design wind load of 90 mph (miles per hour), the XYZ building’s columns would have been overstressed by 205%!! Effectively they were designed for a 62 mph wind speed.

This building was designed using the 2009 IBC (International Building Code), where the absolute minimum design wind speed anywhere in the United States is 85 mph. There is no way the XYZ Lumberyard building will meet Code and no RDP (Registered Design Professional – engineer or architect) worth his or her salt would ever put their seal on the plans.

When it comes down to it, the XYZ design (which frankly was nothing more than a list of pieces) is downright criminal – on the basis of the under designed columns alone.

Truss carriers, XYZ Lumberyard proposed two 2×12 Southern Pine as carriers. Luckily, the roof could very well collapse before the 5×5 columns, as the carriers are overstressed by 167%. Instead of being able to carry the 20 psf (pounds per square foot) roof load they should be able to handle, these headers would have been overstressed at just over one-half of the design load.

It would have been a race to see which happen to take the building down first – the wind or the snow!

As I have said more than once, when one sells on price alone, there is always someone else willing to sacrifice quality to get to a lower price.

Or, perhaps ignorance is bliss and they are very, very happy!

Moving Sliding Doors to Inside of Building

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, we have a problem with our sliding barn doors hanging up on the siding and getting froze into the ice/snow or stuck in mud. Is there any reason to not relocate them inside the barn? Our barn has a concrete floor but the outside approach is dirt and grass. Moving the track and (2) doors inside would prevent snow and mud from interfering with opening and seems to be a win win. We have just never seen this done before. Thanks for your time! BRANDONN IN MUSKEGON

DEAR BRANDONN: Your situation is a prime example of why I try to discourage the use of sliding doors in snow country. In most instances sectional overhead doors are a much better design solution.

Most clients with sliding doors do not want to mount them on the inside because they do not want to sacrifice the wall space. Nothing can be hung or placed against the interior of the wall in the direction the door (or doors) slide.

In many instances exterior sliding doors can be taller than interior sliding doors, as the interior doors must hang below the bottom chord of the trusses. This may be an issue in your case.

As far as relocating – if it was my own building I would want to re-side this wall, to eliminate the slot in the siding where the track board currently resides. Most of the balance of the expense (or time) will come from labor. But yes, you can move them, with the above considerations in mind.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much a square foot for a horse area that is 50’wx128’Lx14′ eave height, metal painted siding and white metal roof with an 8×10, 10×10 and 12×16 roll up metal insulated doors with 2 man doors, 8-4’x6′ sliding double pane windows, and an 8×8 tack room? JOHN IN GARDEN CITY

DEAR JOHN: Thank you very much for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. While we appreciate you having worked out so many of the dimensional details, as well as doors and windows, it is always best to discuss your exact building needs with one of our Building Designers at (866)200-9657. Every quote is free, and your Building Designer will contact you as much – or as little as you wish.

Your request for a tack room leads me to believe some portion of this building may eventually have some stalls in it. If so, we can perhaps make some suggestions as to size and locations which would give you the most bang for your investment.

I always encourage horse enthusiasts to read through some of the most relevant articles on equestrian facilities, prior to getting ideas “set in stone”.

Here are a few:

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Could you tell me how tall are the side walls on project 04-0509 please? If I wanted to build a combo workshop and home, a home with two floors, how tall of a side wall do you recommend? If I got a quote from you for 16′ tall building, 60 x 40.  How much of a difference is it to change it to 18′ side walls.  Or can I get two floors for my house out of a sixteen footer?  Please advise. Thank you. PAUL IN MECHANICSBURG

DEAR PAUL: The walls on Project 04-0509 are 18 feet tall, which is the bare minimum needed to get two full eight foot tall ceilings. You need to account for the thickness of a nominal four inch thick concrete slab, the thickness of the floor system (usually around a foot) and the thickness of the roof system (always at least six inches). In order to get the full thickness of attic insulation from wall to wall, I recommend using raised heel trusses (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/), which means you will generally need to add yet another foot to the eave height.

Keep in mind – fire separation requirements between mixed uses (shop and living areas), which will entail a minimum of one-hour fire resistance.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How much does a pole barn materials weigh? 30×40 x12 DONALD IN LIBERTY

DEAR DONALD: Obviously the features of any given building will change the weight. For the dimensions you have mentioned, with average features, expect it to weigh in at about 8,000 pounds.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I work for the US Army Corps of Engineers in Toledo Ohio. We need to get a layout and price for a building that is around 35′ X 45′ with 15 foot tall doors at each end to be able to run a boat on a trailer thru it and to be able to use it to work on it and have storage for the survey equipment we use on it. Please send whatever you have that is close to those dimensions that I can send up to the main office for their consideration. Thank You, MITCHELL IN TOLEDO

DEAR MITCHELL: As a starting point, it would be quickest for you to request a quote by going to: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/freequote/. One of our Building Designers will be in contact with you to work out fine details and guide you towards a solution which will best meet with needs and budget.

If this is a project which will have to be put out for bids, our team works with any governmental agency and will product structural plans for bidding, with no upfront investment. Oftentimes, it is most cost effective to split the project up into two portions for bid – the building design and materials delivered to the site in one, the construction labor and any concrete in another. This eliminates the contractor marking up the materials and gives agencies more building for their investment. Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Instead of using your free building quote which is different than what I want. Can you quote sketches for me? I can get by with a 30X60, but I wanted to see what the price difference would be to go to a 36X60. Put the total cost down including delivery. What I want is two open bays for equipment storage with a 24′ shop. The inner shop wall will have a man door that enters the shop. I will build the pole barn myself. Can you separate the costs of the inner shop wall and overhead door? I figure if the cost is more than I can do this year I can at least have the shell completed and install the rest at a later date. I hope this isn’t too confusing. I have included my contact information below if you need to contact me. Roof would be 4-12 pitch. All steel with two colors (Black and white). DAN IN OHIO

DEAR DAN: Most certainly we can begin with your sketches. You are after a building which in the bygone days (at least in the Pacific Northwest) was known as a machine shed/shop. They were very popular in the 50’s through 80’s because wind analysis technology had not yet figured out the forces on a three sided building (which the non-shop portion is).

Ultimately it would be less expensive to do a fully enclosed pole building.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m planning a 32×64 pole building, metal sides, shingle roof. The building will not be heated. However, I am intrigued by the thought of harnessing the radiant heat in the ground under the slab and allowing this to radiate through the floor into the building during the winter. Is this even a realistic idea? If the slab were insulated vertically around the perimeter to isolate it from the frost and also a perimeter horizontal insulation under the slab (say two to four feet of rigid foam), will this theory work? How would this be done and have you done it successfully in the past? ANDY IN CLARKLAKE

#1 Going with either 30’ or 36’ in width and 60’ or 72’ in length will lower your per square foot investment.

#2 Unless you have an HOA which requires a shingled roof, steel is going to be by far more durable and economical. Read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2015/03/shingle-warranties/

Your idea might work. Basically what you propose to create is in effect a frost-protected shallow foundation (although the columns would extend through the bottom of the slab around the perimeter). Here is a guide which can help you towards this design: https://www.cs.arizona.edu/people/jcropper/desguide.pdf

It is not something I have tried, so I can’t speak towards the results. I can imagine you would have to do a thorough job of insulating the building itself, in hopes you would be able to retain enough heat to prevent the ground below your slab from also freezing.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

Is There a Pole Barn Tax Deduction?

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is there favorable tax treatment for a pole barn built in 2014 for use in a construction business (similar to that for agricultural buildings, per your 12/21/11 post)? HAVEN IN HERBSTER

DEAR HAVEN: The Federal and State tax codes have become increasing complex, in recent years. At the close of 2013, the Federal tax code alone amounted to 73,954 pages! (It was 8,200 pages in 1945 and 26,300 in 1984) There are no special tax breaks which we are aware of as a pole barn tax deduction.  However you should consult with your tax adviser, as they should be up on all of the latest tax rulings.

There was a tax deduction of up to \$1.80 per square foot available to owners or designers of new or existing commercial buildings which save at least 50% of the heating and cooling energy of a building which meets ASHRAE Standard 90.1-2001. Partial deductions of up to \$.60 per square foot can be taken for measures affecting any one of three building systems: the building envelope, lighting, or heating and cooling systems. These tax deductions were available for systems placed in service from January 1, 2006 through December 31, 2013, so your building would not be eligible. Sorry – I don’t currently know of any but ask your tax advisor for the latest on a pole barn tax deduction.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We just moved in to a place that has a 20 x 20 pole building. It was used it for horses but I want a workshop there instead. There is an opening at the rear of the building that measures 5 ft. wide and 8 ft. tall.  Should I: A take 3-20 ft panels and just wall it in or, B… put another door there? All I need is a 8 foot tall by 5 foot roll up door and that is all! Thanks for your input. NEARLY NEW

DEAR NEARLY: A five foot wide by eight foot tall overhead or coil door is going to be a special order due to the width being less than eight feet. Unless you have a need for a door of this size, at this location, you would be economically ahead to close the opening in. If the building is very old, you may want to just order new steel for the entire wall, so the color is all uniform – as paint fades.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, I was wondering if you have any electronic brochures that you could email with pricing.  When I click on your residential link it shows a small picture of a Cape Cod style home with a garage.  We got pricing from another pole building company and they were very pricey!  We are looking for at least 4 bedrooms.  We like a craftsman style look.  Any assistance would be great!

Thank you for your time HOTMAIL HOUSING

DEAR HOTMAIL: We have brochures which are downloadable on our website at: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/product-guide.php

In order to print our pricing, onto 8-1/2″ x 11″ pages, they would more than fill up a semi-trailer – so probably not the best way to start! All of our buildings are custom designed, so your choices are almost limitless….and pricing varies from state to state mostly because of changes in wind and snow loads.

What IS the best way, is to find an existing house plan you like – from any website, then send us the link, or scan and email to us. One of our Building Designers can work with you to determine the best combination of features and make changes which you desire, and get the project scaled properly to a price which is within your budget. I believe our price will beat any other for same size and features, and comes with your own personal designer to help you. The entire quote process and design time – is FREE.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

Dear Guru: Does Spray Foam Insulation Need a Vapor Barrier?

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you need a vapor barrier between steel and spray foam insulation? BUILDING IN BEMIDJI

DEAR BEMIDJI: Properly installed, spray foam insulation should act as a more than adequate vapor barrier.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: would like a ballpark figure on a pole 100 long 40 wide 1 double door 2 man doors texture 1-11 all walls. JUST JOHN

DEAR JUST: Hansen Pole Buildings is happy to provide pole building quotes for you, or anyone for this matter in the 48 United States.  On the Hansen Pole Buildings website, is the ability to request a quote, all you need to do is provide the specifics of your building, as in where it will be constructed geographically. Click on the Free Quote button on the left of the home page – and you are there!  All buildings are priced according to your local design criteria. You can fill out as much or as little of it you want, but without your location, any price I give you will be “out of the ballpark”. Ten to fifteen minutes, and you can have an exact price!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: When ordering directly from you, do you have references for contractors to assemble in our area?  Thanks. PONDERING IN PUEBLO

DEAR PONDERING: Just to make sure we are on the same page, Hansen Pole Buildings is not a contractor in any sense of the word. We do not construct or build buildings (or portions of buildings) anywhere for anyone. Should you need a builder, we do have a list of builders for nearly everywhere in the country.

This is not an endorsement on our part of any particular builder’s skills or lack thereof. As none of them work directly for us, we can’t guarantee the quality of their work. We do have a “one strike and you’re out” rule. Simply, if we receive even one verifiable and legitimate negative complaint about any particular builder, we will no longer give out their name to our clients. While this is not a fail-safe method, it does afford some degree of protection. It is always a good idea to speak with other customers the builder has done work for in the past, to get an idea of the builder’s professionalism. At any time a contractor can hire a crew member unbeknownst to him (or us) who will be “less than expected”.  Even “good” contractors have “bad” days, so whether you hire one of your own choosing or use one from our list, make sure you do your homework BEFORE you hire them.

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