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Radiant Floor Heat, UC-4B Post Treatment, and Button Staples

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the use of radiant floor heat for a post frame building, post treatment that will not rot, and whether or not button staples can be used for housewrap on a post frame house.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am researching my build. I wanted to know since the flooring I want is concrete can heated flooring with the water system be installed in the ground for a pole barn? ERIKA in SHREVEPORT

DEAR ERIKA: Radiant in floor heat is a very popular and efficient method for heating concrete floors in post frame (pole barn) buildings. My own shouse (shop/house) has it (story here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/radiant-floor-heating/).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in a part of Texas that has clay we call blackland prairie clay, black gumbo, and other names I care not mention. Is it possible to sink poles in the ground in this area given the fact that most posts out there are from fast grown lumber? I built a pole barn in 1983 with my father, but that was in sandy loam soil up near Oklahoma. I have 900′ of ranch fencing and poles are always rotting. DANIEL in ROYSE CITY

DEAR DANIEL: Your premature decay of fence posts has nothing to do with how fast lumber grows – it is them not being pressure preservative treated to UC-4B levels. All of our fully engineered post frame (pole barn) buildings utilize this level of pressure treating and it performs admirably. If you are yet concerned, there are options available such as plastic column sleeves, or pouring piers with wet set brackets to keep columns out of ground entirely.

Of greater concern would be your columns moving due to expansive soils (for extended reading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/07/barndominium-on-expansive-soils/).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Concerning fastening house wrap, can you use button staples as recommended by house wrap companies? I didn’t know if the button would show through the tin. I don’t want to lose house wrap before tin would be up as we live in a very unpredictable and windy area but also don’t want button to show through tin if that’s a possibility. Thanks! ADAM in COLBY

DEAR ADAM: Weather Resistant Barriers (aka WRB or house wrap) should be installed using flat staples, rather than button staples. Button staples, as you have surmised, may show through steel siding. You want to only install WRB directly ahead of where you are hanging steel, so as not to leave it exposed to winds any more than is necessary.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Ventilation, tools, Columns, Fasteners, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation and tagged , , , , , on by .

PEX Tubing

PEX Tubing for radiant floor heat in post frame buildings.

I’ve espoused previously on the joys of hydronic radiant floor heating (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/radiant-floor-heating/) and would encourage anyone who is going to install a concrete slab on grade in their new (or existing) post frame (pole) building to consider at least making a provision for it in the future.

As we all realize, once a concrete floor is poured, it is literally “cast in stone”. Without huge expenses, there really is no going back for a do over.

pex tubingThe key to being prepared for the future, is to have PEX tubing installed in the concrete slab at time of pour.

PEX (or crosslinked polyethylene) is part of a water supply piping system which has several advantages over metal pipe (copper, iron, lead) or rigid plastic pipe (PVC, CPVC, ABS) systems. It is flexible, resistant to scale and chlorine, doesn’t corrode or develop pinholes, is faster to install than metal or rigid plastic, and has fewer connections and fittings.

PEX tubing is made from crosslinked HDPE (high density polyethylene) polymer. The HDPE is melted and continuously extruded into tube. The crosslinking of the HDPE is accomplished in one of three different methods.

Crosslinking is a chemical reaction which occurs between polyethylene polymer chains. Crosslinking causes the HDPE to become stronger and resistant to cold temperature cracking or brittleness on impact while retaining its flexibility. The three methods of crosslinking HDPE are the Engels method (PEX-a), the Silane Method (PEX-b), and the Radiation method (PEX-c). Several industry participants claim the PEX-a method yields more flexible tubing than the other methods. All three types of PEX tubing meet the ASTM, NSF and CSA standards.

Some applications require PEX with added oxygen barrier properties. Radiant floor heating (or hydronic heating systems) may include some ferrous (iron-containing) components which will corrode over time if exposed to oxygen. Since standard PEX tubing allows some oxygen to penetrate through the tube walls, various “Oxygen Barrier PEX” tubing has been designed to prevent diffusion of oxygen into these systems. Two types of specialty PEX pipe are offered:

Oxygen barrier PEX has a layer of polymer laminated to the outside surface (or sandwiched internally between PEX layers) which prevents oxygen from penetrating. The polymer film is usually EVOH (ethyl vinyl alcohol copolymer), used in the food industry as an oxygen barrier.

PEX-Al-PEX (or PEX-Aluminum-PEX or “PAP”) is a specialty PEX tubing manufactured by several suppliers. This tubing has a layer of aluminum embedded between layers of PEX to provide an oxygen barrier. PEX-Al-PEX may also be called multilayer pipe or composite plastic aluminum pipe. PEX-Al-PEX will also retain shape when bent, and may also exhibit less expansion and shrinkage during temperature fluctuations, but may be less flexible than PEX tubing. PEX-AL-PEX costs about 30% more than standard PEX.

As with so many things construction, there is one opportunity to do something right or wrong, personally I would recommend making the extra investment in PEX-Al-PEX. The few extra dollars can lead to a lifetime of happy heating for your new pole building.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete and tagged , , , , , on by .

Post Frame Design Questions

Regarding Post-Frame Home Design
Reader MAUREEN writes:
“Hello. I was forwarded to you because I have some questions for you regarding my home
design.
What are the most economical size of trusses?
What brand of doors and windows do you use?
Can Hansen Buildings be built on a crawl space foundation?
Can in floor heat be used in crawl space foundations?
Are foundation designs sent for the foundation prep company?… to ensure the correct
foundation?
And please send your financing options.
Thank you!”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru says: 

Planning your new home around what span of trusses might be most economical is likely to end you up with a less than desirable outcome as you are trying to fit your ideal spaces into a preordained box, rather than creating a box to best fit your spaces. With identical features, building shells (other than in extreme wind or snow situations) become less per square foot up
to 40-50 foot spans, then generally level off until clearspans exceed 80 feet.

Here are some thoughts you may find helpful:
Have professional floor plans and elevation drawings done before pestering a builder. Very
few builders are professional designers or architects – expecting them to be is unrealistic.
If you do not own the dirt, it is impossible to craft a barndominium plan to best fit with your
building site.

Some plan tips to consider:
Direction of access – driveways are not cheap and shortest distance between two points is a
straight line.
Curb appeal – what will people see when they drive up? This may not be important to you,
however someday someone will try to resell your barndominium.

Is there an appealing view?
North-south alignment – place no or few windows on north walls, but lots of windows on south
wall (in the South reverse this). Roof overhangs on south wall should provide shade to windows
from mid-day summer sun.

Is there a slope on your building site?
Work from inside out – do not try to fit your wants and needs within a pre-ordained box just
because someone said using a “standard” size might be cheaper. Differences in dimensions
from “standard” are pennies per square foot, not dollars.

Popular home spaces and sizes need to be
determined:  https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/09/room-in-a-
barndominium/ and https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/09/the-first-tool-to-construct-
your-own-barndominium/.

With all of this in mind, order your custom designed floor plans
here: http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/

We furnish Plyco insulated commercial steel entry doors, with steel jambs. Both doors and
jambs are factory finish painted. These doors are available in six panel and cross buck styles,
with a variety of glass options.

Our windows are dual glazed vinyl and can be ordered with tempered glass. They come from a
variety of manufacturers and have appropriate U-factor and SHGC rating for your particular
climactic conditions.
More window and door information can be found within our Product Guide
https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pdfs/Hansen-Buildings-Product-Guide.pdf

Yes, our fully engineered buildings can be erected with crawl spaces (and do not necessarily
require perimeter concrete foundation walls)
https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/03/slab-on-grade-or-crawl-space/

Radiant floor heat can be incorporated into post frame crawl space designs.
Most of our clients use embedded columns for their foundation. Regardless of whether you go
this route, use piers with wet-set brackets, thickened edge slab with wet-set brackets, poured,
ICF, or CMU foundations, our engineered plans will include foundation designs.

Here is information of our financing: www.HansenPoleBuildings.com/financing
This book (co-authored by me) may also prove helpful https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Tips-Your-post-Frame-Home-

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Planning and tagged , , , on by .

Doggie Day Care

Hi Guru, I Need Your Guidance

Reader CHRISTINA in MILFORD writes:

“Hi guru, I need your guidance. I am looking to build a 30x135x14 commercial building for dog daycare. I have no experience in building/ordering a pole barn and want to get it right.

Bullet points: I need 4000 sq ft. broken down: 3000 for daycare with 1 garage, 1000 with garage for any type of renter to take an income. Side note: I did 14 feet for a car lift if renter was a mechanic. Question: is 30 wide the most cost effective width for my usage?

Insulation-would like it to be energy efficient: what is best to keep heat in? Spray foam or fiberglass. What rating/factors? Ceiling-thinking 10 ft ceiling to keep heat low. What’s best material for ceiling? Acoustical tiles 2×2, metal, or sheetrock. Will I need a vapor barrier? Spray foam, loose fiberglass bail or fiberglass rolls?

Gauge: what is the best gauge for my usage? Ventilation: what are soffit vents and do I need them in my structure in summer to release hot air from the ceiling. What is the best way to keep the structure cool/warm? Windows: would you recommend a window(s) high up that can be opened to have cross ventilation or a way to get rid of hot air? Concrete-radiant floor (hot water with pex) enough to keep dogs and employees warm or do I need a HVAC system too. Please include anything else I might have missed. Gotta get it right the 1st time. Thank you!!!”

Thank you for reaching out to me.

In answer to your questions:

Buildings closer to square are more cost effective than long, narrow ones. They reduce surface area of walls – so less expense in siding and interior finishes, as well as lower utility costs. Long, narrow buildings also put greater wind shear loads on roofs at each end as well as endwalls. This can result in a need to add structural sheathing to portions, adding to your investment further.

If you are considering your renter may be in automotive repair, you may want to consider a 40′ width, as it would allow for two standard vehicles to be parked inside end-to-end.

Pike County is in Climate Zone 5A

Under 2021’s IECC (International Energy Conservation Code) for commercial buildings Ceilings should be R-49, Walls R-20 plus R-3.8 continuous, slab R-15 three foot down at perimeter and R-5 under slab itself.

For roof system – order 29 gauge roof steel (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/01/steel-thickness/) with an Integral condensation control factory applied (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/), vent eaves and ridge in correct proportions (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/adequate-eave-ridge-ventilation/), raised heel trusses  (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/), blow in R-49 of granulated rockwool (personally, I would do R-60).

Walls – commercial bookshelf wall girts (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2011/09/commercial-girts-what-are-they/), Weather Resistant Barrier between framing and wall steel (think Tyvek or similar), unfaced Rockwool Batts with well-sealed 1″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 applied to interior of wall framing.

Slab – at edges 4″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 applied to inside face of splash plank and down vertically 3′. 1-1/4″ Rockwool Comfortboard 80 under slab.

I would use 5/8″ Type X drywall for the ceiling, without a vapor barrier. You will need to fire separate between rental shop and doggie day care. For the sake of making certain almost any occupancy will be allowed, plan on two layers of 5/8″ Type X on each side of the wall with no penetrations between.

Besides your radiant floor heat, I would also plan on an HVAC system capable of controlling humidity.

Most jurisdictions require a pre-application conference for commercial buildings, you will want to verify if this is available (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/01/pre-application-conference/).

This entry was posted in Workshop Buildings, Commercial Buildings, Animal shelter, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Planning and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Radiant Floor Heat, UC-4B Post Treatment, and Button Staples

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the use of radiant floor heat for a post frame building, post treatment that will not rot, and whether or not button staples can be used for housewrap on a post frame house.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am researching my build. I wanted to know since the flooring I want is concrete can heated flooring with the water system be installed in the ground for a pole barn? ERIKA in SHREVEPORT

DEAR ERIKA: Radiant in floor heat is a very popular and efficient method for heating concrete floors in post frame (pole barn) buildings. My own shouse (shop/house) has it (story here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/radiant-floor-heating/).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in a part of Texas that has clay we call blackland prairie clay, black gumbo, and other names I care not mention. Is it possible to sink poles in the ground in this area given the fact that most posts out there are from fast grown lumber? I built a pole barn in 1983 with my father, but that was in sandy loam soil up near Oklahoma. I have 900′ of ranch fencing and poles are always rotting. DANIEL in ROYSE CITY

DEAR DANIEL: Your premature decay of fence posts has nothing to do with how fast lumber grows – it is them not being pressure preservative treated to UC-4B levels. All of our fully engineered post frame (pole barn) buildings utilize this level of pressure treating and it performs admirably. If you are yet concerned, there are options available such as plastic column sleeves, or pouring piers with wet set brackets to keep columns out of ground entirely.

Of greater concern would be your columns moving due to expansive soils (for extended reading: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/07/barndominium-on-expansive-soils/).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Concerning fastening house wrap, can you use button staples as recommended by house wrap companies? I didn’t know if the button would show through the tin. I don’t want to lose house wrap before tin would be up as we live in a very unpredictable and windy area but also don’t want button to show through tin if that’s a possibility. Thanks! ADAM in COLBY

DEAR ADAM: Weather Resistant Barriers (aka WRB or house wrap) should be installed using flat staples, rather than button staples. Button staples, as you have surmised, may show through steel siding. You want to only install WRB directly ahead of where you are hanging steel, so as not to leave it exposed to winds any more than is necessary.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Pole Barn Planning, Shouse, Ventilation, tools, Columns, Fasteners, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation and tagged , , , , , on by .

Radiant Floor Heat, Treated Posts, and “Missed” Screws

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about radiant floor heat, properly treated posts for in ground use, and how to fix screws that did not hit the framing materials.

In Floor Heat System InstallationDEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am trying to make a decision on radiant floor heat. The internet has a lot of opinions from a lot of people who are trying to sell one type or the other. Where can I find unbiased information to make an educated decision between electric and hydro systems and how can you get budget estimates for each? BILLY in GOODLETTSVILLE

DEAR BILLY: I have found your best information is going to come from www.RadiantOutfitters.com 1.877.855.2537 they will give you the straight story and not try to sell you anything you do not need.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Louisiana. High humidity, normally higher temps. Perfect for the termites. Am I correct in saying that the posts will be placed in the ground? No termites will eat those posts as long as the post is properly treated. How can I guarantee I am getting properly treated posts, because no company will say they have not properly treated wood? TODD in PONCHATOULA

DEAR TODD: For ease of construction and best structural integrity properly pressure preservative treated columns are best embedded into ground. To insure you are getting properly pressure preservative treated wood for structural in ground use, look for end tags on columns with UC-4B on them. UC-4A treated lumber is not adequate for structural in ground use. Pre-construction termite treatment is also an excellent preventative plan: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/09/pre-construction-termite-treatment/.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I had a contractor build a small metal building that I plan to make my house. After he left I noticed several places where he screwed through the sheets but missed the metal c channel, leaving holes. Some of them are in the roof and some in the walls. I called him back for warranty and his crew used silicone to patch it. So later I sent him a text about it. He said he would come by so we could discuss it. It’s been a month and I still haven’t heard from him. What can I do to get this fixed and how should he go about the repair? CINDY in TYLER

DEAR CINDY: Your challenge is why I always encourage clients to require a performance bond (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/11/performance-bonds/). You also should have withheld final payment until a thorough inspection of your building was done, including a punch list of non-conforming issues. Some states require contractor registration, including bonding to give client’s a financial recourse against defective workmanship. Sadly for you, Texas is not one of these states.

Silicone is not an approved fix for ‘shiners’ (screws through steel into air) or holes in roofing or siding. Your only approved fix is to put screws through steel cladding into a solid block of wood on inside.

Your quickest way to get action is going to be to spend a hundred dollars or so to have a construction attorney send a registered letter to your contractor, demanding satisfactory repairs within a reasonable time frame. If this builder has no real assets, chances are he will ignore it entirely, as he knows he has little to fear from losing in court. Ultimately you may need to hire yet another contractor to do your repairs.

Best of luck to you.

 

 

This entry was posted in Columns, Fasteners, Pole Barn Heating, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning and tagged , , , , , on by .

PEX-AL-PEX Tubing for Post Frame Concrete Slabs

PEX-AL-PEX Tubing For Post Frame Concrete Slabs

Long time readers will recall my prior article on PEX tubing for post frame concrete slabs: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/08/pex-tubing/.

I caught up with my friend Les Graham of Radiant Outfitters at the recent NFBA (National Frame Building Association) Expo in Louisville, who I volunteered to do a nice video in regards to better floor tubing and better floor heat.



Besides providing your complete post frame building kit package, Hansen Pole Buildings can also provide a complete kit package for your radiant floor with everything you will need to get your system into a concrete slab on grade (including layout drawings and instructions).  Talk to your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer at (866)200-9657.

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Homes, Pole Barn Heating, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete and tagged , , , , on by .

Slab on Grade or Crawl Space?

Slab on Grade or Crawlspace?

Long-time readers of this column recall seeing a profuse number of articles written in regards to crawl spaces. These articles have been on a gradual increase since this first one six years ago: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2013/03/crawl-space/.

With residential post frame construction becoming rapidly more popular as more people discover this system’s benefits, this debate of slab on grade versus crawl space will continue.

Hansen Pole Buildings’ Senior Designer Wayde recently had a client order a new post frame building kit package with an elevated wood floor (to create a crawl space). After client has placed their building order, Wayde came back to me with this, “Can you tell me the Pros and cons of building this as we designed and sold it vs. lowering it three feet and adding a radiant concrete floor?”

I happen to be a big fan of hydronic radiant floor heat in concrete slabs, we have it in our own building: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/radiant-floor-heating/.

Biggest pro of “as is” – living upon a wood floor will be so much more comfortable than upon concrete. Wayde’s client could still do radiant floor heat, should they opt to not go with a forced air HVAC system.

Slab on grade the client will have to (or should) do a post frame shallow frost protected foundation: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/02/minimizing-excavation-in-post-frame-buildings/. This perimeter rigid board insulation must be covered with rodent proof material.

If I went to slab on grade, I would recommend a minimum R-60 for ceiling, taking a 22 inch deep raised heel truss to allow for adequate depths of blown in insulation. (Read more about raised heel trusses here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/).

For an 8′ finished ceiling, they would then need an eave height of 10′ 2-5/8″. I like taller rooms, so you might want to experiment with eave heights of 11′ 2-5/8″ and 12’2-5/8″ (latter of these will be easier to drywall and will result in least waste).

Making a choice between living on concrete or wood will be one only able to be made prior to time of construction and should not be taken lightly. All factors should be taken into consideration most importantly being what creates a most comfortable living space.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Design, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete, Footings and tagged , , , , , on by .

PEX Tubing

I’ve espoused previously on the joys of hydronic radiant floor heating (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/08/radiant-floor-heating/) and would encourage anyone who is going to install a concrete slab on grade in their new (or existing) post frame (pole) building to consider at least making a provision for it in the future.

As we all realize, once a concrete floor is poured, it is literally “cast in stone”. Without huge expenses, there really is no going back for a do over.

pex tubingThe key to being prepared for the future, is to have PEX tubing installed in the concrete slab at time of pour.

PEX (or crosslinked polyethylene) is part of a water supply piping system which has several advantages over metal pipe (copper, iron, lead) or rigid plastic pipe (PVC, CPVC, ABS) systems. It is flexible, resistant to scale and chlorine, doesn’t corrode or develop pinholes, is faster to install than metal or rigid plastic, and has fewer connections and fittings.

PEX tubing is made from crosslinked HDPE (high density polyethylene) polymer. The HDPE is melted and continuously extruded into tube. The crosslinking of the HDPE is accomplished in one of three different methods.

Crosslinking is a chemical reaction which occurs between polyethylene polymer chains. Crosslinking causes the HDPE to become stronger and resistant to cold temperature cracking or brittleness on impact while retaining its flexibility. The three methods of crosslinking HDPE are the Engels method (PEX-a), the Silane Method (PEX-b), and the Radiation method (PEX-c). Several industry participants claim the PEX-a method yields more flexible tubing than the other methods. All three types of PEX tubing meet the ASTM, NSF and CSA standards.

Some applications require PEX with added oxygen barrier properties. Radiant floor heating (or hydronic heating systems) may include some ferrous (iron-containing) components which will corrode over time if exposed to oxygen. Since standard PEX tubing allows some oxygen to penetrate through the tube walls, various “Oxygen Barrier PEX” tubing has been designed to prevent diffusion of oxygen into these systems. Two types of specialty PEX pipe are offered:

Oxygen barrier PEX has a layer of polymer laminated to the outside surface (or sandwiched internally between PEX layers) which prevents oxygen from penetrating. The polymer film is usually EVOH (ethyl vinyl alcohol copolymer), used in the food industry as an oxygen barrier.

PEX-Al-PEX (or PEX-Aluminum-PEX or “PAP”) is a specialty PEX tubing manufactured by several suppliers. This tubing has a layer of aluminum embedded between layers of PEX to provide an oxygen barrier. PEX-Al-PEX may also be called multilayer pipe or composite plastic aluminum pipe. PEX-Al-PEX will also retain shape when bent, and may also exhibit less expansion and shrinkage during temperature fluctuations, but may be less flexible than PEX tubing. PEX-AL-PEX costs about 30% more than standard PEX.

As with so many things construction, there is one opportunity to do something right or wrong, personally I would recommend making the extra investment in PEX-Al-PEX. The few extra dollars can lead to a lifetime of happy heating for your new pole building.

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Planning, Concrete and tagged , , , , on by .
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