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Vapor Barrier, Adding Pole Barn Home, and How Many Bedrooms

Today’s “Ask the Guru” answers reader questions about adding a vapor barrier between a ceiling and attic, adding a pole barn to a manufactured home, and how many bedrooms can fit into a barndominium.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, my concern/ question is vapor barrier between my steel ceiling and attic before insulation “fiberglass”. I have a 40/64/16. Walls are closed cell 2-3 inches. My builder put my steel ceiling up and not even thinking of insulation process at that time. My roof is steel with drip stop. Vented by soffit and ridge vent. Reading a lot of mixed answers I’m asking did/do I need a vapor barrier between bottom truss and steel ceiling before fiberglass or will have bigger issues down the road. It will be heated at all times for Michigan cold months from late October till April roughly. If it does need it how do I go about it now. Thanks. COREY in RIVERDALE

DEAR COREY: You are not alone in not considering insulation prior to building. Sadly, few builders or providers will have this sort of discussion with you – they are looking for a quick sale, rather than helping clients avoid having to reach out to me for answer and solutions (some of them being costly).

Yours is an easy one (and free) – no.

With closed cell insulation in your walls, if you were to have a ceiling vapor barrier, expect to have to mechanically dehumidify or be prepared for condensation, mold and mildew issues. Here is some extended reading for you: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2023/01/does-my-pole-barn-need-a-vapor-barrier/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If I have a manufactured home that has been bricked in all around can I add a Pole Barn Home onto it? EDWARD in TENNILLE

DEAR EDWARD: Most states do not allow for manufactured homes to be structurally attached to, due to load transfer concerns. However, this does not preclude a free-standing pole barn home from being abutted to it with non-structural attachments. Please email specifics of your proposed addition and photos of your existing home to our Design Team Manager – Caleb@HansenPoleBuildings.com or call 1.866.200.9657 for immediate service.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How many bedrooms will fit in your largest residential barndominium. Thinking about using it as a dorm-type or assisted living. PHILLIP

DEAR PHILLIP: Allowing for hallways, bathrooms, etc., on a single level you should be able to have several hundred bedrooms. We can provide up to four stories with fire suppression sprinklers, so in theory, well over a thousand bedrooms.

This entry was posted in Building Department, Pole Barn Homes, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Barn Planning, Post Frame Home, Barndominium, Ventilation, floorplans, Building Interior, Insulation, Budget, Pole Barn Questions, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Design and tagged , , , , , , on by .

Twelve Foot Addition, Wall Insulation, and Purlin Settings

This Wednesday The Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about extending an existing 60′ long pole building by twelve feet, the best way to insulate outside walls to prevent sweating, and the reasoning behind setting purlins flush with the top of the truss top chords.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have an existing 40 x 60 pole building, built in the late 80’s. It has double trusses spaced 12 ft apart. I would like to extend it from 60 to 72 ft. We originally were thinking we would extend using stick frame construction but now I am wondering if this will affect the integrity of the existing building. I would like to leave the end of the pole building in place and add a door into the new space at each end. Your advice on the best way to go about this? The extension is planned for a bathroom and laundry space and would have a concrete floor. Thanks for your help. WENDY in VANCOUVER

DEAR WENDY: Adding as a post frame (pole) building will be your most economical and easiest route to go, especially as your Building Department will require engineer sealed drawings and verifying calculations. In order to determine how best to achieve your end goals, we would need detailed photos of inside and outside of your existing building, measurements at eave sides and dead center from bottom of pressure preservative treated splash plank to underside of roof steel, spacing of existing endwall columns, etc. We make deliveries into Western Washington and Northwest Oregon frequently, so freight costs will be quite reasonable. Please forward your information to Caleb@HansenPoleBuildings.com along with site address and best contact phone number.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I built a pole barn last year and am having the floor poured this week. Once completed, I will begin building an apartment inside the barn area. What is the best way to insulate the outside walls for great R value and prevent sweating? DAVID in PORTSMOUTH

DEAR DAVID: If you placed a Weather Resistant Barrier (think Tyvek or similar) between your framing and siding, then fill your insulation cavity with Rockwool and have a well sealed vapor barrier before interior finish. If no WRB, then have two or more inches of closed cell spray foam applied to inside face of your siding, then fill balance of cavity with rockwool and no interior vapor barrier. Depending upon what you do with your under slab and roof for vapor barriers and insulation, you may need to mechanically dehumidify in order to prevent condensation (sweating), as your walls alone are merely a small piece of a big puzzle.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I understand your roof design is with purlins flush with the top of the truss. Why do you use this design? Sorry if this info is on your website, I didn’t see it. Regards, STANLEY in DOSWELL

DEAR STANLEY: Here is an article on this subject: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/02/where-oh-where-should-my-purlins-go/

Having roof purlins flush with top of trusses has many advantages:

It does not take up extra height (purlins over top of trusses either reduces interior clear height or increases eave height).

Purlins are then in perfectly straight lines, allowing for pre-drilling of roof panels (this eliminates misses). Others may try to align purlins over top of trusses using butt end splices. This makes for a very poor connection attempting to get adequate fasteners into 3/4″ (1/2 width) of truss top chords. When purlin joints are lapped, it causes a stagger of the purlins, resulting in inability to pre-drill and a significant chances of screw misses.

Purlins can be connected to trusses using engineered and Code conforming parts (in our case, quick to install Simpson Strongtie PFDB26B). Codes (as well as sound engineering practice) require purlins on edge to be solid blocked or otherwise prevented from rotation at ends. A nailed only connection would not meet this requirement).

This entry was posted in Columns, Constructing a Pole Building, Sheds, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Barndominium, Footings, Rebuilding Structures, Pole Barn Questions, Budget, Pole Barn Design and tagged , , , , , , , , on by .

Pole Barn Pricing, Idaho, and a Pole Barn Addition Moisture

This week the Pole Barn Guru pricing of a pole barn with a link to a full blog regarding costs of various sizes, whether or not Hansen Buildings ships kits to Idaho- YES! and moisture control on a new post frame addition.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Quick question 30′ x 40/50′ x 14′ high Garage. Pole. Idea what the price is, average?? Just to know if I am in the ball park. Is that installed?? Thank you. GUILLERMO in WATREN

DEAR GUILLERMO: This pricing guide should at least give you a baseline as to where to begin: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/pole-barn-prices/

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you ship kits to Idaho? JORDAN in COUNCIL

 

DEAR JORDAN: We have provided multiple fully engineered post-frame buildings to every state, including Alaska and Hawaii. This would include well over a hundred to our clients in Idaho.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello! Pertaining to pole barn construction. I am adding onto my existing pole barn, which will be insulated with 7/16″ OSB finished on the inside with wood heat. My question is on a pole barn roof does the moisture vapor wrap go between the metal and the truss perlons? Or between the insulation and inside OSB? Whatever the recommendation is, would your answer be the same for the walls? Thanks. GREG in WEST HARRISON

DEAR GREG: Sounds like you are creating a dead attic space. You should order roof steel with a Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/09/integral-condensation-control-2/) factory applied. Order trusses with raised heels so you can have full depth of insulation from wall-to-wall. Vent eaves and ridge in correct proportions. For your walls, use a well-sealed weather resistant barrier (Tyvek or similar) between girts and siding. Rockwool batts between bookshelf wall girts, interior vapor barrier (6mil clear Visqueen works), then your interior finish.

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Heating, Pole Barn Design, Roofing Materials, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation, Rebuilding Structures and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Additional Guidance, Steel Trusses, and Kit Inclusions

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about guidance of adding to an existing structure, the practical use of light steel trusses for a pole barn home, what components are included in a Hansen Pole Building kit.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: If purchasing a kit from Hansen with installation instructions. Assuming it’s a custom kit that is intended to be an addition like a new garage, would you provide guidance as to how to complete the marrying of the new structure with the existing? EVAN in HORICON

DEAR EVAN: Thank you for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. Every building we provide is custom designed to meet our client’s wants and needs, as well as being fully engineered for your specific climactic conditions. Yes, we will provide assistance in joining your new building to your existing. Please keep in mind, because we did not design or provide your existing building, our addition will be designed to be totally self-supporting

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We like the look of the pole barn ceiling, we like the look of the steel trusses. We want to build an open ceiling, open ductwork, residential pole barn home. Are the same trusses used in a residential the same or are they structurally larger? TAMMY in EASTPOINT

DEAR TAMMY: Very few of these light-gauge welded up steel trusses are fabricated to meet mandated Building Code requirements for quality assurance, as they do not have random third-party inspections. Further, they are typically not fabricated by certified welders. You can achieve a very similar look, using parallel chord wood scissor trusses. Prefabricated metal-connector plated wood trusses are subjected to rigorous quality controls, both daily in-house and quarterly by a certified third-party.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is all included in your kits? Just the frame, or siding, roofing etc.? JOHN in SPOKANE

DEAR JOHN: Your new Hansen post-frame building kit includes full multi-page 24” x 36” engineer sealed structural blueprints detailing location and attachment of every piece (as well as suitable for obtaining Building Permits), all lumber, trusses, roofing, siding, doors, windows, etc., to provide a complete ‘dried-in’ shell. Any raised wood floors (lofts, mezzanines, second or third floors) and applicable stairs. Our industry’s best, fully illustrated, step-by-step installation manual, and unlimited technical support from people who have actually built post frame buildings. Even better – it includes our industry leading Limited Lifetime Structural warranty!

 

This entry was posted in floorplans, Pole Barn Planning, Trusses, Building Interior, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Constructing a Pole Building, Barndominium, Pole Building How To Guides and tagged , , , , on by .

Tornado Safety, Garage Additions, and Utilities in Post Frame

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the safety of a pole barn in the event of a tornado, whether a new post frame garage can be added to an existing home, and the standards to run utility wires and pipes through posts.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How safe are pole barn houses in tornadoes? BRENDA in CHATTANOOGA

DEAR BRENDA: Fully engineered post frame (pole barn) houses are as safe and sturdy as their design wind speeds. We can have your building engineered to resist wind speeds up to and in excess of 200 miles per hour (basically encompassing EF4 events). In weighing out risk/reward – a Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer can price for you incrementally starting at your jurisdiction’s mandated design wind speeds. This allows you to determine what you are willing and able to invest.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to design a 2 car garage to attach directly to the side of my house with matching vinyl siding? AMY in CLEVELAND

DEAR AMY: Yes it would be possible. We would need to have information on (dimensions and location of attachment) and photos of your house as well as what brand and color your vinyl siding is.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good morning sir, I am building a shop/house and have a question about running wire and pex water lines through the posts I have read your threads about this yet still not 100%. I do not have the gap between the metal and the posts like you spoke of so drilling the posts seems like the easiest way for me to accomplish the routing of the wire. So what is the right answer, can i drill the posts or not per code?? Thanks SAM in KENNEWICK

DEAR SAM: Think of a hole being drilled through as being an “open knot”. Lumber grading rules refer to these as being “Unsound or Loose Knots and Holes” due to any cause. Most structural framing – like wall girts and roof purlins or posts and timbers are graded as Number 2.
For practical purposes, a hole up to just less than ¼ of board face being drilled through will be within grade in #2 lumber. Example: 5-1/2” face of a 6×6 a hole up to 1-1/4” may be drilled through, as often as every two feet. Allowable hole sizes are reduced and spacing increased for higher grades of lumber.

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Design, Building Styles and Designs, Constructing a Pole Building, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Pole Barn Structure, Pole Building Siding, Vinyl Siding, Columns, Pole Barn Questions, Post Frame Home and tagged , , , , , , , on by .

Home Addition, Combo Building, and Moisture Barriers

This week the PBG answers reader questions about a post frame addition to a house, a combo business/residential building, and use of a vapor barrier.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We bought an older ranch house with a poorly done addition in the back. Since this dream property came with a house that prevents me building my dream barndominium, what are your thoughts on replacing this addition with a post beam constructed addition? if we pour a slab for the floor there would be about 2 or 3 steps down to the new room. it would allow for ground level indoor/ outdoor living, higher ceilings than the rest of the ranch, and give me just a bit of the open living space with exposed trusses that I’ve dreamed of. Carolyn

DEAR CAROLYN: Fully engineered post frame additions work well with pretty much any existing structural system. You also are not obligated to use steel roofing and siding, so it can be designed to match with your home. Another advantage is – you can do this sort of work yourselves, without having to hire it done!

 

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Combination business and residential? Square footage of 7000. Can it be done? KEVIN in FLORISSANT

DEAR KEVIN: Interesting timing, as I was just going through some old family photos this week and found one of my grandfather in their grocery store from the 1930’s. My mother and grandparents lived upstairs from this store.

As for modern day combination business and residential, it can certainly be done using a fully engineered post frame building. Depending upon use classification of your business, it is likely you will be required to have at least a one hour fire separation between these dissimilar uses (really not any major thing – just a consideration).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I have a 24x50x8 pole building, concrete floor, and all metal is screwed directly to the wood framing. The purlins are spaced 2′ OC between the trusses, and I have 3.5″ closed cell rigid foam board to install between the 2×4 purlins. For the walls I have 1.5″ closed cell rigid board to install between the girts.

On the underside of the purlins after the closed cell rigid insulation is installed, I intend to install metal panels from the ridge to the walls. So, outside to inside it will be the following: Roof metal, then 2×4 purlins with 3.5″ rigid closed cell foam board in between, then metal panels installed on the interior. I will not have anything on the bottom chord of the trusses.

On the walls I plan to cut-to-fit the 1.5″ closed cell rigid foam board and install between the girts. After foam board is installed I intend to line all interior walls with painted OSB.

Question: based on the above, can I use vapor barrier (or plastic) between the interior metal and the 3.5″ foam board, and extend the vapor barrier down the walls between the foam board and the OSB? Or do you have another recommendation? COREY IN COULTERVILLE

DEAR COREY: You are far more ambitious than me, to cut and fit all those insulation boards to fit between purlins and girts. As it will be impossible to perfectly seal all of those joints between insulation and framing, it would be a good idea to install a well-sealed vapor barrier between insulation boards and steel liner panels. Keep in mind, you may end up with some humidity issues inside of your building (especially if there is no vapor barrier under your concrete floor), so you may need to have some sort of mechanical dehumidification.

 

 

 

 

This entry was posted in Building Interior, Pole Barn Homes, Insulation, Post Frame Home, Pole Barn Questions, Building Styles and Designs, Shouse, Pole Barn Planning, Ventilation and tagged , , , , , , on by .

A Crawl Space, Building Size Options, and An Addition

This Monday the Pole Barn Guru discusses building a post frame building over a crawl space, whether one should build up or out, and if it is possible to build on to an existing building with a post frame structure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: When building a post frame on a crawl space with post spaced every 8-10 feet, how does one support the floor joists around the perimeter? Thanks. JERRY in LEWISPORT

DEAR JERRY: In most instances floor joists will be supported by beams attached to wall columns. If you are looking at a design with zero barrier (think wheel chair accessibility) then you can excavate down and we can engineer a permanent wood foundation between columns. This allows for floor joists to be supported by short pressure preservative treated wood foundation walls and reduces your building’s profile. https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/10/post-frame-home-zero-barrier-entry-over-a-crawl-space/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My wife got a quote for a 40x60x16 and it’s a little much for what we want. Is it possible to to do a 40x40x 15 or 16 with enough ceiling load for a 2 story living quarter that will be in half of it? Our building code is IRC 2018 and we have a minimum snow load of 50# and wind load of 90mph. JAKE in RATHDRUM

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR JAKE: My first encouragement would be, if at all possible, to build as big as you think you will need – as no one has ever come back to me and said what they built was just too big. Even if you have to borrow some in order to do so – with today’s low interest rates it is likely to be manageable. In order to get two stories, at least your living area will need to have a taller eave height https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/05/how-tall-should-my-eave-height-be-for-two-stories/ regardless of footprint dimensions. Your Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer will be reaching out to you to discuss further.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can I use pole barn construction to add to an existing residential structure? I.E. room addition. DAVID in MOORESVILLE

DEAR DAVID: You can absolutely use fully engineered post frame (pole barn) construction to add onto your house. Roofing and siding can be planned to match your existing construction as well – making everything tie together seamlessly.

 

 

 

This entry was posted in Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Pole Building How To Guides, Pole Barn Planning, Footings, Building Interior, Columns, Pole Barn Homes and tagged , , , , , on by .

A Post Frame Addition, California Muster, and Ventilation

Today the Pole Barn Guru answers questions regarding a post frame addition, passing the “muster” of California’s building codes, and ventilation of attic space with spray foam.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi. We are wanting to attach a monitor style barn to an existing stick build for additional residential use. Is this tie-in possible? Thank you! TOM in KIRTLAND

DEAR TOM: It is very possible and will quite probably provide some real advantages, besides just affordability. Post frame buildings can be any variety of sidings, so it should be able to be structurally designed to tie pretty much up to any type of exiting building – provided existing building is structurally sound.

In order to do this right you have only a couple of choices – you can spend a lot of money on an architect and/or engineer who physically comes to your site (could be as high as 20% of project’s finished costs). Or you can provide lots of information to us on what we are attaching to, as well as conveying your expectations. We will do anything reasonable to assist you in not making a mistake you will regret always. If I thought anyone else could not just actually do it but also do it better than us, with you being able to construct yourself, I would in all honesty let you know.

Please dial 1(866)200-9657 and speak with a Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer who can assist you to success.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi, Do you have any residential structures that have recently passed muster in southern California?

FYI I have a lot in Malibu but little $. I am wondering if I – and usually one helper – could construct a fire resistant home in this picky building code state.

Thanks, DAN in LOS ANGELES

DEAR DAN: We’ve been providing post frame building kits in Southern California areas of Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zones as well as Wildland-Urban Interface Fire Areas for years. Is does take a certain amount of patience, as plans almost always get kicked back at least once (relax – it is just a part of this process). Using steel roofing and siding, unvented steel soffits and wrapping any wood normally exposed with steel trims expedites approvals. If your property is located in a HOA (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/11/homeowners-association/) be certain to talk with them sooner, rather than later.

As far as you and a helper – as long as you can and will read instructions and look at our third-party engineer’s highly detailed plans you should experience no real challenges. And, if you get stuck, we provide unlimited Technical Support at no extra charge.

A Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer will be reaching out to you for more in depth discussions.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We bought a house kit from you all and have been very pleased. We had the roof deck, exterior walls and exterior walls of the crawl space spray foam insulated. They have essentially sealed the house. Will the lack of attic ventilation be an issue? HOLLY in TAYLORSVILLE

DEAR HOLLY: Thank you for your kind words, we would enjoy seeing any digital photos or video of your building during construction as well as completed.

If you spray foamed roof deck and have a dead attic space due to a flat level ceiling (we provided ceiling loaded trusses as well as ceiling joists) then you could experience condensation issues and potentially mold and/or mildew in attic, especially if attic is not made part of conditioned space (heated and/or cooled) with living area. If flat ceiling has also been insulated look out for trouble (keep a close eye on situation by doing visual attic inspections), as attic space could become quite a bit cooler than area below ceiling. Your spray foam contractor should have been talking with you about this prior to doing his or her application.

 

This entry was posted in Insulation, Pole Barn Questions, Pole Barn Design, Building Department, Ventilation and tagged , , , , on by .

Addition to House, Stone Floor Moisture Barrier

Today the Pole Barn Guru discusses a post frame addition to a house, whether or not one should use a plastic barrier under the stone floor in a steel building, and the ability of a truss carrier to handle imposed loads.

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hi! We are considering a sizeable addition to our 600 sq ft bungalow style home, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30×40 ft addition. Wondering if it’s possible to do pole barn construction for this addition, and what kind of considerations would need to be made? The current home does have an existing basement with block foundation. I’ve read information regarding attaching a pole barn build to an existing house for use as a garage, but wondering how this scenario changes things? We would work with a licensed designer to draw up plans, and a licensed contractor for the build, but are just in the brainstorming phase at this point. KARI in WILLMAR

DEAR KARI: There are actually no real considerations for post frame not applicable to a stick frame building. You should work with a Hansen Pole Buildings designer for your building shell and we can provide engineer sealed plans for structural portions of the addition. You can work with an independent designer (FYI – there isn’t a category of licensing for designer) or create an interior layout of your own.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Should I put plastic down under the stone floor in a steel building? BOB in WYALUSING

DEAR BOB: It certainly would not harm anything and will help to minimize condensation issues. Look at a 15ml thickness. For more information on vapor barriers see: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/11/vapor-barriers-slabs-grades/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Really wondering if a 2×12 SYP MSR 2400 will hold my 32ft trusses 2ft oc poles 6×6 8 oc. 1 2×12 on outside and 1 on inside. Is the 2×12 SYP MSR 2400 strong enough to hold the weight? CHRISTOPHER in CHESTERFIELD

CHRISTOPHER: In answer to your question – maybe. It will depend upon a myriad of factors including (but not limited to) Ps (roof snow load adjusted for slope), Dead loads from roofing, any roof sheathing, truss weight, any ceiling or insulation.

If you are so inclined, you can try this calculation yourself:

complex formulaLOAD (in psf – pounds per square foot) X (½ building width plus sidewall overhang in feet X 12”) X Distance spanned by beam squared (in feet)

Divide this by 8 X 2400 X 2 (for two members) X 31.6406 (Section Modulus of a 2×12) X 1.15 (Duration of Load for snow).

If your resulting answer is less than 1 then your beams will probably work.

Caveats – LOAD is Ps + all dead loads. For steel roofing over purlins 5 psf would be my recommendation. If a ceiling is to be installed a minimum of 5 psf should be added (10 psf being better).

Some important factors other than just strength include deflection (especially if trusses support a gypsum wallboard ceiling), minimum required bearing area and shear force at edge of bearing.

Frequently overlooked is connection of beams to columns. Notching in would be preferred to each face of columns.

Ultimately, RDP (Registered Design Professional – architect or engineer) who provided your sealed plans should be making a determination as to adequacy as well as providing appropriate connections.

 

This entry was posted in Lumber, Pole Barn Design, Trusses, Ventilation, Professional Engineer, Pole Barn Homes and tagged , , , , , on by .
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