Tag Archives: radiant barrier

Dead Air as an Insulator

Dead Air as an Insulator

Are you considering building a climate controlled post-frame building? If so, then proper insulation is (or should be) at the top of your list.

Reflective InsulationIf you have not seen ridiculous claims of double digit R-values from reflective radiant barriers yet (aka ‘bubble wrap insulation”) you will. Read more about these claims here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/04/reflective-insulation-wars/

Reflective radiant barrier manufacturers base their R-value claims upon an assembly including a 100% sealed dead air space on one or both sides of their products. In all reality, it is impossible to achieve this in real world construction.

For many years buildings have been built with an air space between building cladding and batt insulation in wall cavities. This air space did, in fact, help circulate air inside the wall and ventilate humidity through the wall. Now, as we increase wall air tightness quality and increase insulation levels, this air space no longer serves a ventilating function. Being on modern heavy insulation outside, it is too cold to help much with ventilation, and convection currents in this air space can actually make condensation problems worse. In addition, this air space is not a very good insulator. It is now recommended that all space between inside wall finishes (such as gypsum wall board) and outside cladding be filled with insulation, leaving no air space. Again – when insulating an exterior wall, don’t leave any air space.

Improper installation techniques with batt insulation can cost you 20% of an exterior wall’s insulating value from air spaces in hidden corners. This radically increases thermal bridging through framing members.  If, on these same walls, you have an accidental space between insulation and vapor barrier, an air current can loop around insulation taking heat directly from warm interior finishes to cold cladding.

For an air space between wall insulation and interior finishes, vapor barrier location is critical.  If an air space is between insulation and vapor barrier, air will rise because of building warmth.  This air movement will find its way through or around insulation to cold side, where it will fall due to cladding’s colder surface.  When insulation completely fills space between wall girts this looping is minimal.  When insulation is installed less than perfectly, this looping force will accelerate.  If there are open triangular corner spaces as mentioned above, this becomes a pump moving heat from interior finish to cladding as if there was no insulation there at all. 

When there is an air space between vapor barrier and interior finish, nothing happens.  Temperature goes from cool on bottom to warm on top but air in this space has no access to cold exterior cladding.  It may circulate but it has no more effect than room air circulation. 

Years ago walls were constructed to leave an air space between exterior wall framing and interior finishes.  This was enough thermal break to stop condensation from forming on interior finishes in line with wall girts.  With modern construction and heavier insulation, there is no longer a condensation problem on interior finishes caused by girts being cold.  (There still is heat loss and in some climate zones building codes now actually require sheet insulation over all wall girts, either inside, or outside.)  An air space’s insulating value is very small compared to the same thickness of any insulation. 

Trapped air is an excellent insulator. Air moving freely carries heat. Circulating air, such as in a wall cavity, is effective at pumping heat from warm side to cold side. Not an insulator, in other words.

To be effective at isolating heat, air must be confined, trapped in tiny spaces, like in fibers of fiberglass, rock wool, or cellulose. Foam is particularly good at trapping air. So you take a not a very good heat conductor product and arrange for it to have many tiny cells able to capture air.

Radiant Barrier, In-Ground Use Poles, and Sliding Door Replacement

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about potential moisture issue when adding insulation to walls with a radiant barrier, advice about in-ground use poles, and replacing old sliding doors.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn on a concrete slab with footers. My 6×6 are anchored down and have a 2×6 plate down the perimeter of my living area. Foam under all the wood. I have radiant barrier on the outside of the walls 2×4 are over it then metal, so I have a air gap between the metal and radiant barrier. I’m adding R19 insulation it will touch the radiant barrier. And then drywall over the insulation. So you think Moisture will form under my drywall. I will have some air flow in my attic on top of my wall insulation it can breathe some.

Thank you. SONNY in MARYVILLE

DEAR SONNY: Your radiant barrier acts as a vapor barrier. In order to prevent moisture from being trapped within your wall cavity you will want to use unfaced batts. I would recommend rock wool, rather than fiberglass or cellulose, as it is unaffected by moisture. Do not add an internal vapor barrier or retarder (such as clear poly).

Having the radiant barrier forces your walls to dry to inside. If you did not place a well-sealed vapor barrier underneath your slab, you should seal it to minimize moisture coming up through your concrete. Depending upon how you have insulated and vented your attic space, you may need to add mechanical dehumidification to prevent mold growth.

You also should not have air flow from your wall into your roof, consider adding fire blocking in order to meet Code requirements https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/08/fireblocking-and-firestops/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Morning guru sir. I have been neck deep trying to plan our building. We are relocating to eastern Tennessee. A lot of people are saying to never put wood poles in the ground. What are your thoughts on this and how should I plan the foundation part of my build? It is a 2600 square foot single level with an almost as large garage. Thanks STEPHEN in CARVER

DEAR STEPHEN: I would have absolutely no qualms about using properly pressure preservative treated (UC-4B rated) columns in ground. Personally, my lovely bride and I live in an 8000 square foot finished, million dollar post frame shouse (shop/house) with embedded columns. I have also built (yes, me) two post frame buildings in Eastern Tennessee – one for my eldest son in Maryville (read about it here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/05/building-design-2/), the other in Happy Valley (an entire series of articles on this particular build begins here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/construction-time-2/). Both of these buildings used embedded columns and I predict these buildings will be standing long after my eventual demise (and will probably outlive my grandchildren and their grandchildren).

 

Horse ShelterDEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn and need the outside sliding doors replaced. There are two doors and they’re each 10′ high, 8′ wide, and 1-2/3″ thick. Do you do this kind of work? ANDY in MIAMISBURG

DEAR ANDY: Thank you for reaching out to us. We are not contractors in any state and only provide materials for sliding doors along with our complete building kits. We would suggest you post this on your nearly Craigslist, under “gigs”.

 

 

Insulating a Partially Climate Controlled Building

Insulating a Partially Climate Controlled Post Frame Self-Storage Building

Reader KEVIN in HUMBOLDT writes:

“ I’m designing a post frame building for self-storage that will have non climate control units around the perimeter of my building with climate controlled units in the center, accessed via a hallway down the center of the building. The entire building will have a metal ceiling. The walls between the climate controlled area and the non-climatized units will be insulated with fiberglass with a vapor barrier between insulation and wall metal on climatized side. I’ll have fiberglass in the attic space above climatized area with vapor barrier between insulation and ceiling metal. If my math is correct on a 58×174 building, I need 4845 square inches in NFVA (net free ventilation area) exhaust and intake. My soffit and ridge vent combo will provide 6960 NFVA exhaust and intake. I have 2 questions. First, do I still need a thermal break under my roof steel? Second, I’ll have 2×6 purlins on edge, recessed btw trusses so, would it be advantageous to install a radiant barrier or house wrap to the bottom side of my purlins, simply for smooth airflow from my soffit vent to ridge vent? Just wondering if purlins blocking air path up the roof is anything to be concerned with. Thank you.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru replies:

You need some provision for condensation control below roof steel – easiest would be to order roof steel with an Integral Condensation Control factory applied. In Tennessee you should not have a vapor barrier between steel ceiling liner panels and blown in fiberglass attic insulation. Placing a barrier on the underside of roof purlins does not appear to make a noticeable difference in performance of attic ventilation. Although you did not ask, you should have a well-sealed vapor barrier (6mil or greater) and R-10 EPS insulation under slabs (even in non-conditioned areas) to minimize potential for condensation on top of slab.

Floor Plan Ideas, An “L” Shaped Building, and Floor Insulation

This Monday the Pole barn Guru answers questions about floor plan ideas for a monitor style building, plans for a “Zen Den” or “Party Barn” in an L shape, and whether or not it is worth adding reflective radian barrier under slab.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello, I am wondering if you have any floor plan ideas for a monitor style pole barn home for 4/5 bedrooms? I am running into a wall trying to create one and can’t find many online. I have 1 friend who recently bought a kit from you with a usable upstairs area and that is something that I’m definitely interested in. I believe her plan was 48×50. Any info would be extremely helpful. Thank you! NATE in PEYTON

Hansen Pole Buildings GuesthouseDEAR NATE: Your friend happens to be one of my most favorite clients – they have been an absolute joy to work with. One beauty of post frame buildings is an broad adaptability to interior layouts. With a monitor style of these dimensions, you could easily have as much as 3600 square feet of floor space. For creating ideal floor plans, here are some tips:
Plan tips – consider these factors:

Direction of access (you don’t want to have to drive around your house to get to garage doors)

‘Curb appeal’ – what will people see as they drive up?
Any views?
North-south alignment – place no or few windows on north wall, lots on south wall

Overhang on south wall to shade windows from mid-day summer sun If your AC bill is far greater than your heating bill, reverse this and omit or minimize north overhangs.

Slope of site

Work from inside out – do not try to fit what you need within a pre-ordained box just because someone said using a “standard” size might be cheaper. Differences in dimensions from “standard” are pennies per square foot, not dollars.

Use the links in this article to assist with determining needed spaces, sizes and how to get expertly crafted floor plans and elevation drawings https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/10/show-me-your-barndominium-plans-please/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We are considering building a “zen den” or “party barn” scenario in our backyard. I have sketched a L shaped scenario that would be perfect for our needs. Is it possible for you all to do L shaped custom? How do I get started? We don’t want to mortgage the house for this thing 🙂 CHRISTY in NASHVILLE

Hansen Buildings TaglineDEAR CHRISTY: Our oldest daughter happens to be the Midwest version of a neighbor to you (here in South Dakota anything under 100 miles is a neighbor LOL) – she is a very successful professional Walking Horse trainer in Shelbyville!

Every building provided by Hansen Pole Buildings is entirely 100% custom – designed to best fit wants and needs of our clients. Whether L, T, Y or U shaped, your only limitations are your imagination and available space. One of our Building Designers will be reaching out to you for more information, or you can email your ideas to caleb@hansenpolebuildings.com or dial (866)200-9657 (please include your site address and best contact phone number if you do).

 

slab edge insulationDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Going to have floor poured in 40×40 pole barn, the barn will be well insulated. My question is putting radiant barrier under floor help at all with losing heat and cold coming through the floor will not be heated be an overhead shop heater. Walls will be r30 and ceiling is roughly r50, or is it a waste of money? Thank you. SHANE in FOSTORIA

DEAR SHANE: A reflective radiant barrier under your slab will not make any appreciable difference. You would be money better spent to use two foot of rigid R-10 insulation vertically below your sidewall steel base trim and backfill it on both sides.

 

 

Pole Barn Insulation, Oh So Confusing

Pole Barn Insulation, Oh So Confusing

How to best insulate any building can be confusing – with pole barns being right there with any other structural system. “Best” also has to include a balance between the upfront investment and the long term savings, throwing in the wild guess as to what future costs of heating and/or cooling might be. Energy costs are probably not going to get any less expensive, so using today’s costs in determination of the outcome should yield a conservative answer.

To me – a practical return is if I can have my investment returned within a seven year period or not. There are also some intangibles to be factored in, such as a well-insulated building being much quieter for the occupants.

Regular readers will recognize the volume of questions I receive from those who did not plan ahead for the eventuality of climate control and are now looking for solutions. This is an issue which can and should be economically planned for at time of construction.

Reader MATT in ROCKFORD got the ball rolling on this subject when he wrote:

“I am ready to build my dream garage but somehow I managed once again to stumble upon an area where people just can’t agree on a single solution. Insulation!!! There should be a single answer for each barn use. 1: Storage only use this… 2: Equine only use this… 3: Workshop/Garage with occasional winter heat use this… 4: Garage/Mancave/House with full time HVAC use this… Plus the difference is argued about whether to use a radiant barrier? Or vapor barrier and where to put them. Vapor barrier like Tyvek etc. outside, plastic vapor barrier inside between wall material and the studs. Up north, snow on steel. Down south sun blazing on the steel. To vent or not to vent is also important.

 I would like to have a person with proper insulation experience in the north and the south who can explain why and in which order ( pic or graphics would be fantastic ) of what is correct. And give definitive answers boasting absolute confidence instead of having an answer that seems wishy-washy. Many kit distributors like to sell things easy to ship (dbl bubble radiant barrier). Many builders like speed, convenience, and mark-up (radiant barrier). Seems like spray foam has issues too.

Ultimately I live in Alabama where humidity, mold, and insects are a definite issue. I am building my final dream garage/home and I am disabled with a limited income so I can’t afford to make a mistake.

 Ugh Please Help!

 I also forgot to mention or ask about insulation that follows the roof line like in a clearspan structure. Or using steel trusses or scissor trusses where the insulation may be next to the roof and there is no attic.   Thanks, Matt”

Matt ~

I feel your pain. Insulation and ventilation are areas where there are a nearly innumerable number of possible solutions, many of which both work and can be Code conforming. Over my nearly 40 years in the post frame building industry, my own feelings about how to properly insulate have changed – most due to the advent of new products, better research and the gaining focus on energy efficiencies.

Tune in tomorrow for the rest of the story!