Tag Archives: Warranty

Can We Do This?

Can we do this?

Engineered post frame building construction allows for nearly any situation a client can imagine to be achieved structurally. As some of you long-time loyal readers may have read – “You are only limited by your imagination, budget and available space”.

Hansen Pole Buildings’ Designer Doug has a client who contracted with a third-party to create floor plans and elevation drawings. Sadly, Doug’s client paid $900 for this work, when it might have been done for $695 or even free with this service: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/post-frame-floor-plans/

As drawn, this design would have a fairly low sloped ‘shed’ style roof spanning 20 feet from building face to outside with a trussed roof system. These two reverse gables would be framed in on top of shed roof purlins.

I can see some potential challenges occurring here.

Shed roof slope appears to be less than a 3:12 roof slope. This voids steel roofing paint warrantees provided by most roll formers. It also means every side lap has to have a butyl sealant between overlap and underlap per R905.10.2 of the International Residential Code:

“1. The minimum slope for lapped, nonsoldered-seam metal roofs without applied lap sealant shall be three units vertical in 12 units horizontal (25-percent slope).”

While I was not privy to distance along the wall length of this shed roof, it appears to be a great enough distance so a fairly significant structural header will need to be placed from column-to-column to support the low heel of shed trusses.

If this is in snow country, snow is going to build up between these two reverse gables and weight will need to be accounted for.

While this design is totally doable, it will entail additional investment in materials, plus more than a fair amount of time to assemble everything and maintain water tightness.

What would I have recommended?

Instead of a shed roof design, use a reverse gable porch with a single gabled truss spanning from corner column to corner column. Roof slope could match the main building, being steep enough to maintain warranty and leak free integrity. Plus – much easier to construct!

Getting the Best Deal on Your New Post Frame Building

A price quote is merely a number without a complete understanding of exactly what is or is not included in said quote.

You have requested quotes for your new post frame building from a dozen or more providers and actually gotten four back, even after having to hound all of them for pricing! Frustrating when you are ‘knocking at their door’ trying to spend your cash.

One quote stood out above all others with an exceptional price, so you place your order. Only after “everything” arrives and you try to assemble it do you find out what you thought you bought and what you really purchased are not quite equal.

Disappointing.

If you prefer to read books by starting with the last chapter, you can skip to there to find a solution.

Here are a few points to be aware of:

Will Your Building Meet Minimum Building Code Standards?

Those quotes you got….few, if any, will specify what loads your building are designed for.

Some of them will just be a list of materials! Are they right? Is there even enough there to construct a building?

Every quote should include (at a minimum): engineer sealed plans specific to your building at your site. Complete Building Code information – including Code version (there is a new one every three years), Ground snow load (Pg), Flat roof snow load (Pf), Design wind speed (Vult or Vasd), Wind Exposure (there is a big difference between Exposure B and C) and assumed soil bearing pressures.

You can easily acquire this information for yourself, so you have a point to check from: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2019/01/building-department-checklist-2019-part-1/

If Code information is not on a quote, chuck it.

Do Roof Trusses Quoted Meet Your Needs?

Here is where investing in an engineered building comes into play, as your Engineer of Record (person who seals your building plans) should be reviewing prefabricated roof truss drawings for their adequacy for his or her building.

Planning on supporting a ceiling, either now or at a later date? If so a ceiling load of no less than five pounds per square foot (psf) should be indicated on engineered plans as well as a BCDL (Bottom Chord Dead Load) to match on sealed truss drawings.

At Hansen Pole Buildings, we ran into this situation so often, we decided to upgrade all trusses up to 40 foot clearspan to support a minimum five psf load.

 

How is Roof Steel Condensation Being Controlled? Most providers are not even going to mention this. Most of us prefer it not to rain inside of our new buildings. 

I answer questions online every Monday. Problem/question number one is regarding condensation.

From cheapest up – a Radiant Reflective Barrier (aka bubble wrap – if going this route you only need single bubble, six foot wide rolls with an adhesive pull strip); Integral Condensation Control (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/03/integral-condensation-control/); Sheathing with 30# felt; Closed cell spray foam.

Planning on insulating and finishing walls? If not using closed cell spray foam you will want to apply a Weather Resistant Barrier between wall framing and steel siding.

What Written Warranty Comes With Your Building?

If it does, how long does it last? What does it include? When it comes to Post Frame Building kits, Hansen Pole Buildings stands alone with a Limited Lifetime Structural Warranty (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/11/pole-building-warranty/).

Are Assembly Instructions Included?

If not, there is plenty left to chance. Hansen Pole Buildings provides a fully illustrated, step-by-step 500 page Construction Manual. And, if you get stuck, there is unlimited FREE Technical Support from people who have actually assembled buildings!

 

How About Your Potential Provider?

How long have they been in business 2 years, 5 years? How about 18 years? How many post frame buildings have they provided? How about roughly 20 thousand buildings located in ALL 50 states!

Here is how to vet any potential provider: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/01/pole-building-suppliers/

I promised you a solution (aka Last Chapter of Book)

We are offering to shop for you.  Seriously? Yes! You provide up to three names of competitors to Hansen Buildings, where you can purchase a complete wood framed post frame building kit package, and we will shop them to get quotes for you.

Now we say three, because frankly, some people just are not very prompt or cooperative when it comes to getting back with price quotes.

Why would we do this?  Comparing “apples to apples”, we know our price will beat theirs, every single time. We offer to do this for your peace of mind.   We guarantee all other prices will be higher.  And we will provide you with documentation to prove it!

There is a catch…..before we go shopping you have to place your order for your new Hansen Pole Building kit….. subject to us “proving our point” by going shopping. Your payment to us will not be processed for ten calendar days. Within seven days of order, you’ll have competitive quotes in hand, or our documentation of having hounded them every week day for a week trying to get pricing for you (seriously, if you have to hound someone for a price, what kind of after sale service will you get?). 

After we email you proof, if you seriously want to purchase from one of these competitors, just let us know before ten days pass and we tear everything up and go away friends.

Maximizing the Metal: Why all Metal is Not Created Equal Part III

Yesterday I shared a portion of Sharon Thatcher’s article on how painted steel panels need to be handled with care. The article also touches on the differences in paint, and which ones are the longest lasting. Here is Part III. The final segment of Sharon’s story, as can be read in the September 2016 issue of Rural Builder magazine.

MORE ON WARRANTIES

The longevity of metal panels is a selling point but also can create an issue when warranties are involved. “You have these warranties for a long time, so do your due diligence,” said Dan Knight.

Knight recommends that builders have their suppliers walk them through the claims process. “If someone says ‘I have a 40-year warranty,’ understand what that means, and understand the remedy.”

What is covered for 40 years and what isn’t?

“Maybe the best thing to do is to say [to your supplier]: walk through the claims process with me. If I have this product for 10 years and I have a claim in 10 years, what happens? Whoever they’re buying it from should be able to tell them how it works.”

Also make sure you keep your receipts. Your bill of receipt will contain important coil numbers, batch numbers and paint code numbers. Assuming you are working with a legitimate company, all that information will help track down vital information about the coil’s production process and warranty details. Paint codes will tell you the type of paint and the years it is expected to last.

A note of warning: while there is a lot of good foreign steel there is also a fair share of cheap and poorly-made foreign steel. Getting satisfaction on a warranty from thousands of miles away, and across multinational lines, can get tricky.

Then there are the instances where a company is not legitimate. The guys at Steel Dynamics have seen it all. “What we find with off-shore steel in particular, they might mimic our warranty. It may be all misspelled, but they’ll copy it, except for the remedy. That’s important. The warranty may say ‘this warranty is only for the cost of the paint.’ So you just paid $12,000 for metal and the paint cost is $800. Or it may say ‘this warranty is not valid within a thousand meters of water, man-made or otherwise; or not in areas of high humidity; or all claims are settled in Chinese court.’ So you have to really understand these things. And compare that to other warranties.”

Switzer has even seen bogus companies passing out Bethlehem Steel warranties and Bethlehem steel hasn’t been in business since 2002.

The victim is ultimately the building owner, but of course everyone along the supply chain are victims as well, from the roll former who purchased that problem steel, to the builder who bought the finished panel and installed it.

Understand the claims process and your level of risk exposure.

“It’s one thing to sell a building to someone with a 40-year warranty, but it’s another thing to have that person come back and discover there’s nothing behind that warranty. And you live in the same town and go to the same church. It’s going to be hard to tell him, ‘well, I can’t really fix this.’”

Unfortunately, the consequences may come when you least expect it. “Even a marginal product will last 10 years pretty much anywhere in the country. So what’s going to happen in 10 years, faster in the south, there’s going to be a day of reckoning, where the offshore stuff people buy, the red is going to turn pink, the green is going to turn white or yellow.”

Bottom line: “Just understand there is a lot of exposure to this. To replace or repaint a roof is considerably more expensive than the cost of the metal.”

The Importance of Paint!

Maximizing the Metal: Why Not all Metal is Created Part II
This article, by my friend Sharon Thatcher, was originally published in the September 2016 issue of Rural Builder magazine and appears unedited. To continue from last Friday:
THE IMPORTANCE OF PAINT
While paint doesn’t provide any structural value, it certainly does add value to the end product. Unpainted panel still has a big audience, but painted coil is now more popular than ever and it’s what most customers see most clearly.
Dan Knight came up through the steel ranks via the paint industry and he explains the different types of paint.
There are three types of paint systems for metal that are commonly used here in the U.S.:
Polyesters: the least expensive, usually with a 10-year warranty on an exposed application.
“Polyesters are a very good workhorse but typically they don’t have the exterior durability that’s required on the warranted products,” Knight said. “So where you see them is on the low- or non-warranted systems such as interior liner panels, gutters, non-warranted or very low-warranted wall and roofing panels. There is always going to be a market need, some people call it shade-and-shelter. It’s located in the back 40 and it’s not expected to last 40 years.”
SMP (silicone polyesters): The most widely used, averaging a 40-year warranty on the film (but fade and chalk can occur over time).
“It’s basically a more durable exterior grade system. This is the workhorse in the rural builder’s market,” Knight explained. “This is commonly referred to as a 40-year paint system.”
PVDF (Polyvinylidene fluoride – trade names include Kynar and Hylar): the premium paint system, averaging a 25-year warranty, but with the best protection against fade and chalk.
“You see [PVDF] a lot in commercial buildings,” said Knight.
The thickness of the paint is important. The thicker the paint, the better the panel can weather the elements and protect the substrate.
For warranted material, the primer should be a minimum of .2 mils thick and the paint or topcoat at least .8 mils for a total of 1 mil thickness. Like steel, there is a range: for top primer the range is 0.2-0.3 mils; the top paint or coat is 0.7-0.8; and the bottom or backer with primer is 0.5-0.7 mils.
PAINT WARRANTY
“This is where understanding the supply chain of the paint system is important,” Knight said. “What you have to understand is that the paint warranty only covers three facets:
Chalk: This is a degradation of the resin and the pigments over time. When you rub your hand on the coating, it leaves a white residue.
Fade: the depth of color difference, say when a dark brown paint turns to a light brown.
Film integrity: the ability of the paint to stick to the metal.
“What is interesting, everybody says 40-year warranted paint but [with SMPs] the film integrity is 40 years, the chalk and the fade are 30 years,” Knight said.

In the U.S., the paint warranty comes from the paint company (an Akzo Nobel, a Valspar, a Duracoat) and is held by the company that applies it. No paint warranties are transferable. The paint warranty remains with the fabricator.

When there is a problem, it goes up through the chain to evaluate the cause of the failure and who will take responsibility, including the installer.

All roll formers should have available their agreements with the paint company, with the important facets of that language written into their own agreements as a protection for themselves and their customers.

Confused yet? To builders Knight noted: “I think it’s important to deal with a reputable roll former who has the depth to stand behind their product.” 

HANDLE WITH CARE

Once off the production line and on the job site, it’s up to the builder to make sure the panel is handled correctly. Don Switzer offers these job site tips.

Job site storage: “I know you think, well it’s building panels, we can store it outside,” he said, “but building panels are built to be on a building, not to be in a stack … In particular you don’t want water to get between the sheets so it causes the paint to delaminate. The pressure of the stack, and the water forces the water through the paint and makes it delaminate. Once they are on the building, and the water is hitting them, the water is just running off. But when you have the water trapped, that’s where you have a problem.”

Installation: “The key is that you don’t damage the surface,” he said. “The metallic coatings without paint (Galvalume or galvanized) or the metallic coatings with paint are not as hard as the steel substrates beneath those paints. So you want to make sure you don’t compromise the integrity of the painted or metallic surface. Again, once they’re up and they’re not scratched, you don’t have a problem. But if you scratch that product all the way down to the base metal, it’s going to rust because you’ve damaged the barrier placed there to protect it.”

MORE ON WARRANTIES

Stay tuned tomorrow, as I share “the rest of the story”…