Tag Archives: humidity

Open Air Pavilions, Moisture Issues, and Screws Missing Purlins

This week “Ask the Guru” answers reader questions about a Hansen Building as as open air pavilion in SW Minnesota, moisture issues in a climate of extremes, and roof screws at an angle due to installer missing roof purlins, then caulking around the screw heads.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Hello again Mike, Our Southern MN town is planning to add an open- air pavilion to a city park and the talk is a heavy-duty concrete pad that would have embedded attachment for the support posts for the roof (presumably steel). The thinking is for a post beam type spec about 30×48 in a park that does NOT have any open lanes for wind. It seems to me the Hansen type of post installation with concrete below and around the post that both supports the weight and serves as anti-lift makes economical sense by requiring less forming and pre-mix costs. PLUS, a certified design that accounts for MN snow and prairie wind exposure would be prudent. (I am assuming your engineers will adapt the construction design to not having metal walls transfer roof loads to the ground.) I will also be recommending to the city to consider adding a partial enclosed area for restrooms and winter warming house for the nearby ice rink that goes over basketball and pickle-ball courts. Thanks for any suggestions or examples you have. BRIAN in LE ROY

DEAR BRIAN: Always a pleasure to hear from you sir! You are absolutely correct about an engineered post-frame building making most sense for this structure. PEMBs (all steel aka ‘red iron’) buildings are rarely a cost-effective design solution for small spans such as this and will require a far greater investment in concrete. Our team will look forward to working with you and your town as this potential project progresses.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Okay… two things. In my quest to find what’s correct, hearing it both ways: live in Iowa. It’s both: cold in the winter, hot in the summer, humidity fluctuates. In my 12×40 addition on my 40×40 pole barn it rains inside daytime in the winter. Because the sun heats the steel. I want to Insulate (rockwool) the 40×40 and heat it: (forced air through water/air radiator, outdoor wood fueled boiler) According to most I put a vapor barrier internally. OK, but the sun is still going to heat the steel and cause moisture in the insulation is it not?? So should the vapor barrier be on the outside?? Secondly: yeah, this house. I hate it. Built in ’76 the old man put sheet plastic over the fiberglass insulation already a vapor barrier. The few places I’ve had to remove drywall I’ve found mold on the back of the drywall. JEFFERY in BLOCKTON

DEAR JEFFERY: It rains inside not due to sun hitting steel, but because warm, moist air inside of your building rises, comes in contact with cooler roof steel, condenses and drips. In winter, this condensate is freezing to underside of roof steel and melts when sun warms steel. Sun is not going to cause moisture in your insulation. Moisture will only be present if you do not have a well-sealed internal vapor barrier (wall will now ‘dry’ to outside). On your house – too much moisture is inside (relative humidity is too high). This could be due to no vapor barrier under floor (if over a crawl space) or under concrete slab on grade. Other contributors are lack of an adequate exhaust fan where water is present (e.g. bathrooms). You should discuss dehumidification with a qualified HVAC provider, as mechanically dehumidifying should resolve future mold issues.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My pole barn roof installer missed the purlins with about a third of the screws. His fix was redrive the screws at an angle to catch the purlins and smear some caulk in each screw. I’m pursuing some genuine relief. I’m now concerned the metal seals on each of these angled screws has permanently deformed the roof steel under and around each of these angled seals so that not even a properly straight driven screw will seal in each of these locations. How legitimate is my concern? BOBBY in LINCOLN

DEAR BOBBY: Obviously your installer is unfamiliar with pre-drilling holes for screws so purlins never are missed. Driving screws at an angle is a poor attempt to remedy this challenge and caulking should never be used in an attempt to seal a potential leak. Your concern is absolutely legitimate. Only true fix now is to remove and replace with new roof steel.

Condensation on Inside of New Vinyl Windows

Condensation on Inside of New Vinyl Windows

Is it a bad sign if you notice condensation forms on your new vinyl windows inside? is condensation on windows bad?

It isn’t a bad sign if you notice water collecting on window’s inside. But, there are a few things you can do to minimize window condensation and protect quality of your new windows.

What causes condensation? When warm air comes in contact with cool surfaces then condensation can form. Consider a time when you carried an ice-cold beverage outside on a hot summer day. Hot air outside comes in contact with a glass’ cool surface, and then moisture forms on glass’ outside. This reaction is why so many people are adamant about using coasters to avoid damage to tables and furniture.

In this same way, windows can “sweat” on a cold winter day. Inside, you are toasty warm while heat is running. Freezing air outside comes in contact with window glass causing moisture to form on inside of windows. Common daily activities can increase moisture in your post frame building, “sweat” found on windows. A hot bath or shower will release moisture into air. Cooking can also affect humidity levels in your post frame home or barndominium.

Risks of indoor air condensation can sometimes be higher with energy efficient windows. These products seal your post frame building and prevent drafty air from moving through frames. Since your building is sealed, heat and moisture are trapped inside. These features, making your windows more energy efficient, also lock in moisture thus increasing risk of condensation forming.

Many northern climates can be cold and dry during winter months, so many building owners welcome extra moisture inside. Increasing humidity levels make your post frame home more comfortable and reduce need to use lotion every day. Too much humidity can lead to mold growth and other damage to your post frame building. So, it is important you are proactive to reduce indoor humidity if you start to notice problems.

Improve air circulation by running fans. Ceiling fans are great for large rooms or use bathroom or kitchen exhaust fans. If weather is nice outside, open windows to bring in fresh air.

Why Fiberglass Insulation Doesn’t Work

Why Fiberglass Insulation Doesn’t Work

This article includes information in italics from a paper from Rastra.com, a provider of ICFs. For those interested, to read their paper in full please visit: https://www.rastra.com/docs/sales/Why_fiberglass_insulation_doesnt_work.pdf

I have been scouring insulation, vapor barrier and building envelope sources for months now, trying to get to truthful data I can rely upon. Let me tell you – it has been a task, and there are moments when I felt blood would squirt from my eyeballs!

“Fiberglass insulation is considered the standard in new construction. Unfortunately, fiberglass has serious flaws. Some of these may surprise you.

Let’s begin with this… it’s a little known fact that fiberglass insulation loses as much as 40% of its insulating capacity when outside temperatures fall below 20 degrees F. When this happens, R-19 fiberglass insulation performs as if it were only R-9. LEED confirms through a Canadian cold weather study that fiberglass loses half its R-value below 0 F. When you need it the most fiberglass insulation cannot properly insulate.”

While fiberglass insulation may lose some small percentage of R value in cold temperatures, this Oak Ridge study is very old news and no longer is pertinent (please read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2021/10/blown-in-fiberglass-attic-insulation/).

Andre Omer Desjarlais at Oak Ridge Laboratories was contacted about this issue, and he said, “This was true 20 years ago but all fiberglass manufacturers have changed their products appreciably since then and this is simply no longer an issue.”

I have searched high and low and cannot find this supposed Canadian cold weather study.

“Fiberglass also performs poorly in the presence of humidity within a wall cavity higher than just 30%. In winter this leads to condensation of moisture carried in by warm air through leaks through the wall. This raises humidity levels inside the building.”

This paragraph frankly makes no sense. I am finding no studies to back up fiberglass insulation performing poorly in high humidity. Condensation in walls can by minimized or eliminated by a well-sealed interior vapor barrier and/or using a flash and batt system with appropriate ratio of R value of closed cell spray foam applied to interior of siding, compared to batt insulation. Ratios are determined based upon the Climate Zone. If using flash and batt, mechanical dehumidification is necessary as walls will dry to the inside of the building.

“Once fiberglass insulation becomes damp its performance decreases dramatically. In fact, it only takes a 1.5% increase in moisture content in fiberglass to reduce its R-value by up to 50%. When moisture is trapped in a conventional wall cavity insulated with fiberglass and sealed with a vapor barrier, insulation becomes damp and loses its ability to insulate. This also promotes mold growth and leads to structural damage.”

I love “it fact” especially when I cannot locate any research to back it up! Regardless of insulation type, just keep wall cavities dry by use of properly placed Weather Resistant Barriers between framing and siding and well-sealed interior vapor barriers/retarders (when using batt insulation and not closed cell spray foam).

“Yet another problem with fiberglass is that for it to work it must be fully expanded to allow its air pockets to perform.”

From Bruce Harley (energy efficiency expert at Conservation Services Group), “When you compress fiberglass insulation, you increase its R-value per inch, up to a pint. However, when you compress a batt of a particular thickness, the total R-value does decrease. For example, standard low-density batts at their nominal rated thickness – R-19 at six inches – have an R-value of about 3.1 per inch. If you compress a 6-inch R-9 batt into a 3-1/2 inch cavity, you get about R-14, or 4.0 per inch.”

“Lastly, fiberglass wall insulation is designed to be used in framed walls. Everywhere a framing member is placed creates a thermal break between the pieces of insulation that allows air to pass. If 2x4s are used to construct the wall anywhere a 2×4 is positioned the wall only has an R-value of R-3.5. On average 27% of a building’s exterior wall’s surface is made up of 2×4 framing members with an R-value of only R-3.5.”

Assuming 2×4 studs at 16” on center, a stick frame wall would be roughly 10% not 27% (27% would take studs under six inches on center). In post frame construction with 2×8 bookshelf girts 24” on center, on a 10’ tall wall only 5% of wood members contact both interior and exterior surfaces, with 2×8  girts having an R-8.7 (per Green Building Advisor). Balance of the cavity could be filled with R-22 of fiberglass or R-30 Rockwool.

Calculating assembly R-values from ASHRAE:

Weather Resistant Barrier = .17
Interior Air Barrier = .68
½” gypsum board = 0.45

((1/22) x (.95)) + ((1/8.7 x (.05)) = .0489 = 1/.0489 = R20.4 + 1.3 = R-21.7 with fiberglass

((1/30) x (.95)) + ((1/8.7 x (.05)) = .0374 = 1/.0374 = R26.7 + 1.3 = R-28 with Rockwool

Moral of this story, fiberglass does work, however it may not be your best design solution.

An Apartment Addition?

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can you supply me with a copy of the sparrow barn in Texas plans It is a wedding venue I would like to copy. JAMES in HAMPTON

DEAR JAMES: Certainly we can, stamped by a registered professional engineer, and custom designed for your climactic loads – and for free. They come along with your investment in a new Hansen Pole Building complete kit package.

Pole Barn Prices

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I built a 40x60x14 pole barn, trusses 4’oc, cement floor with seal, foil bubble wrap outside all girts and purlins, vented soffits and continuous ridgevent. Trusses have 5psf bottom cord rating. I have read all the posts of yours I could. Would like to put in 24×40 apartment and was looking to put in BIBS insulation with horizontal bookcase framing but ran into a few questions. I’m concerned about drywall cracking/nail popping if I strap bottom truss cords and apply drywall to that. If I drop the ceiling, however, I’ll have to do vertical studs for the ceiling joists to sit on. I see a problem with fireblocking too. How best do you fireblock behind posts (between girts) with bookcased studs? Vertical studs would be even more difficult to fireblock, with 1.5 inch gaps everywhere. Last question is insulation…..With the impermeable foil bubble wrap up against the steel siding, I was going to use the mesh fabric and BIBS only before drywall. I’m concerned about a vapor barrier against drywall as this will primarily be used in summer with a/c on the interior and an outside humid climate. I appreciate any help and advice. MARCUS in ROANOKE

DEAR MARCUS: I appreciate you being a loyal reader!

You will want to place 2×4 ceiling joists on edge (two inch face towards the floor and sky) every 24 inches between the truss bottom chords, using Simpson 2×4 joist hangers on each end. With 5/8″ gypsum wallboard, screwed on per the manufacturer’s installation instructions, it is unlikely you will experience unusual drywall cracking or nail popping. Properly done, your bookcase studs (wall girts) should be supporting the siding on the outside and drywall on the inside. Installed this way, they effectively serve as fire blocking. In the event your building has “barn” style wall girts (flat on the outside face of the columns), use bookshelf girts of a large enough dimension to reach the siding, as well as extend to at least the inside face of the columns (e.g. 2×8 on a 6×6 column).

Commercial-Wall-Girts_EditedThere is going to be a challenge on the walls….your building should actually have building wrap on the outside of the framing to allow any water vapor in the wall cavity to escape to the outside world. The wall vapor barrier should be on the inside face of the wall girts to prevent moist air from inside of your apartment from entering the wall cavity. The reflective insulation in your walls should be either removed or at the very least punctured frequently, prior to wall insulation being installed.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am installing shutters on my home, which is a barn style home with metal siding.  My husband is very concerned about which type of screws to use to prevent leaking or rusting.  What do you suggest? AMELIA in HONEA PATH

DEAR AMELIA: Builders Edge Shutter-Lok patented fastening system makes installation fast and easy. Shutter-Lok holds in any material. Shutter-Lok features a durable copolymer construction with molded-through color so that there is no paint to ever scratch, flake, or fade. Installation requires drill with 1/4″ masonry bit.