Tag Archives: overhang

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! Is It Ventilation?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! Is it Ventilation?

I really enjoy good food. In order to continue doing so and avoid weighing significantly more than I should, I do a treadmill run nearly every morning. To keep from expiring from utter boredom of exercise, I have wall mounted my flat screen LED television within easy viewing distance. With subscriptions to Amazon Prime and Netflix, I have yet to run out of movies and series to view. Most movie selections are either fairly old, or were box office challenged. One of these movies was 2016’s Tina Fay starring in Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, with a budget of $35 million and a box office take of $18.3 million.

Well, this article isn’t about how Tina Fey carried this movie. To be precise, it’s a movie title conveying my expression upon doing some recent reading.

Back in 2016 I had penned an article (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/06/overhang/) mentioning a specific pole building company by name. A representative of this company recently contacted Hansen Pole Buildings’ owner Eric to let him know they did not appreciate being named. I was even kind enough to have included a live link to their website in my article, providing them with free press.

While editing, I happened to peruse their website. When a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot moment hit me…..

Under ‘Building Features’ I found this gem, “(Our standard roof to eave or gable design creates a fully ventilated structure making boxed overhangs an option, not a necessity)”.

I had to read it several times to fully get my head around what I thought I had read.

In order for this statement to be true, roof steel high ribs would need to remain unobstructed – allowing a free flow of intake air. This could possibly pose a challenge if one desires to keep small flying critters from entering a dead attic space.

In my humble opinion, this attempted ventilation intake ranges from laughable to totally ridiculous. However, I have found, nearly anything can be spun to sound like a benefit. What should be happening between roof steel and eave strut – placement of an Inside Closure (https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/12/the-lowly-inside-closure/), to seal these openings.

IBC (International Building Code) 2015 Edition tends to agree with me.

“1203.2.1 Openings into attic.

Exterior openings into the attic space of any building intended for human occupancy shall be protected to prevent the entry of birds, squirrels, rodents, snakes and other similar creatures. Openings for ventilation having a least dimension of not less than 1/16 inch and not more than ¼ inch shall be permitted. Openings for ventilation having a least dimension larger than ¼ inch shall be provided with corrosion-resistant wire cloth screening, hardware cloth, perforated vinyl or similar material width openings having a least dimension of not less than 1/16 inch and not more than ¼ inch.”

Thinking about a post frame building other than from Hansen Pole Buildings? Before possibly throwing away your hard earned cash, give us a call – if we feel someone else’s building has a better value than ours, we will be first ones to tell you to invest in it.


Rehashing Eave Height

Rehashing Eave Height

Eave height on post frame buildings seems to be a challenge for some folks. At Hansen Pole Buildings, we do make some efforts to see to it our clients (or more often the builders some of them hire), actually build to the correct height.

How important is it to get this correct? After having a solid foundation, this would probably be number two on the list.

My long term readers are going to begin having drool run out the corners of their mouths quickly, as I have harped (oops – expounded) upon the subject frequently in the past.
Today’s lesson is due to one of our clients who is currently erecting his pole barn. This particular building has overhangs on the gabled endwalls, fashioned by lowering the end truss by the thickness of the roof purlins. This allows for the purlins to run over the top of the purlins to support the overhang. It makes for one sturdy overhang which isn’t going to sag.

The question?

“Where it says lower end truss by 7 inches and 5/8 of an inch? Can you please confirm this? Doesn’t this mean the eave will be lower than 12 feet?”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru Responds:

Our client was spot on with how far to lower the trusses on the end of his building.
Today’s answer on eave height lies with some extended light reading, enjoy: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/02/eave-height-2/

Blog Entries Lead to Post Depth Question!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good morning.

I have been reading the various blog entries for several days, regarding pole barn construction.  I have been in contact with your design professional, but I a question that I thought might be a question that could possibly benefit others with a similar situation.

I am in the process of planning a 40X60 building for a shop for the business I have.  My planned (and only available) location has about 5′ of fall on the lot which would be on the 60′ side wall of the building.  I have built up a 50 X 70 pad.  This has been built up and compacted with red “clay” a term we use around here, referring to the material we call “fill” around here, generally used for the purpose of building up a building pad.  My original thoughts were to place a 6″ thick monolithic concrete pad with a footer, (I intend to run forklifts on it.) and erect a steel building kit.

Since the dirt pad was completed, I have since stumbled onto your site, and am looking at a pole building.  So, my question relates to setting poles.  How do you handle setting poles when half of the building will be over the top of built up soil base?  I know it can be done, and I am not concerned overly much with adequacy of the soil compaction, which at this point, it has been sitting for about 7 or 8 months since it was compacted, but it has not been tested for compaction.

But having never done this before, since I am not 100% sure, and have yet to dig holes, (but I do want to start later this spring) I wanted to know your thoughts before I proceed.


DEAR WESSLEY: And a fine good morning to you!

I believe you are going to find a post frame (pole) building to be a much more viable option for your new structure than all steel and this is why….

Although your fill has sat for 7-8 months, there is yet a chance of additional settling. Clay is also a very unstable soil to place footings upon – so if your consideration was to support a monolithic pad with a footing around the perimeter, unless the footing was at the depth of the undisturbed underlying soil there is a high degree of probability the building would settle or shift – leaving you an unhappy new building owner.

With your pole building – the columns which will be placed in the fill area should be ordered long enough so the base of the column (actually the concrete below the base of the column) will rest upon virgin soil. This will require some holes to be as deep as five feet, however most skid loader mounted augers will get this kind of depth. The columns placed in this manner should minimize the probability of issues from settling and give you a resulting structure which can be happily used for several generations.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I can build a 28×36 pole building with 12′ eaves on my lot. I would like double trusses spaced 12′ so I can have 3 bays. What would be the difference in truss design for one designed for roof load only compared to one that can also support a ceiling. Thank you. JIM in SALEM

DEAR JIM: At the bare basics – the trusses will have one or more of the following: higher grades of lumber used for top and or bottom chords; large lumber for top and or bottom chords; more internal truss webs; larger pressed steel connector plates.

Now some recommendations – when you have a ceiling, ventilation is required. The best way to do it is to have enclosed vented overhangs and a vented ridge. This gives both an air intake as well as an exhaust and gives smooth airflow throughout the entire enclosed attic space. If you are planning upon insulating the ceiling, raised heel trusses are the way to go (read more on the hows and whys of raised heel trusses here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/07/raised-heel-trusses/).

You get one opportunity to do your new building right or wrong, I’d sure like to see it done right!

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I bought a house with an existing 38×26 pole barn. The barn has metal roof placed over 3/4″ rigid foam (ISO) screwed to the purlins (2X4 on edge). I can’t tell what the facing material is on the ISO, but its white and doesn’t seem like paper. There is noticeable water staining on the rigid foam which I believe is due to condensation. There is a vent ridge on the barn. The metal roof is a PBR profile. For the winter I would like to insulate the cathedral ceiling better (I don’t want to drop a ceiling as I have storage shelving that prevents this). What is the best option (besides spray foam). I was considering kraft faced batts stapled to the 24″ OC purlins. I could do an R13 since the purlins are 2X4s, but also considered an R19 and let the batts bulge out a bit as I’m not going to sheath it. I would have the ridge foam to butt up against which should allow ventilation on the opposite side still (adjacent to metal roof). What do you recommend? I have wood stove for heating in the winter time and use it to take the chill off when I work out there (ie not on all the time). PATRICK in INDIANAPOLIS

DEAR PATRICK: I am going to give you the answer you probably don’t want to hear…..the water staining is most probably due to roof leaks, rather than condensation. This happens when screws are placed through foam board, which causes the screw shanks to deform, slots to form beneath the screw heads and when the deformations or slots get large enough – it leaks. The best solution for the problem is to remove the roof panels, take out the insulation boards and throw them away, then reinstall the roof panels using 1-1/2 inch long screws with a larger diameter than what was previously used.

Placing any sort of batt insulation under the foam as it currently exists is just going to get you wet insulation. Trying to use R-19 insulation batts in a 3-1/2 inch cavity will net you R-13 as the insulation is only as effective as its fully expanded thickness.

Once you have removed the foam boards the solution seriously is to spray foam it. Code requires airflow from eave to ridge over the batt insulation, which is going to involve more work and cost than the foam – it would take two layers of 2×4 laid flat on top of the existing purlins, one set running up the roof and another set going the same direction as the purlins, to screw into. This will mess up any trims on the perimeter of the roof, resulting in purchasing larger coverage trims.

The original building owner’s lack of planning for future uses of the building have now become your expensive nightmare.