Tag Archives: liner panels

Ceiling Liner, Double trusses, and a Second floor

This Wednesday the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about what best installed between ceiling liner and trusses and insulation recommendations in a new shop, advice on sidewall column size for use with double trusses, and the structural stability of a pole barn second floor.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Just built a 40x60x11 pole barn on the eastern shore of MD. Approx. 20×40 will be garage workshop, the rest will have a kitchen and bathroom etc. going to use liner panel for ceiling, what do I, if anything needs to use between the liner and the trusses? Insulation recommendation? Product recommendations are appreciated! Thank you, LYNN in SHARPTOWN

DEAR LINN: There is not a Code requirement for a barrier between trusses and liner panels in your climate zone. If you are considering blowing in cellulose, chemicals in cellulose can react with steel panels to cause premature deterioration, so a barrier should then be used. My first choice would be blown granulated rockwool, second would be fiberglass. Make sure to have adequate eave and ridge ventilation, in correct proportions.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Went reading your blog on double truss system, if wanting to erect a pole barn 30×78. Would using 4×6 be ok going 12 ft high post spaced every 8 foot other then 2 16 openings. BRIAN in PADUCAH

nailing trussesDEAR BRIAN: Thank you for being a reader of my articles. Even with a very low design wind speed, low risk occupancy and a well-protected site, it is unlikely 4×6 columns would be adequate to properly carry design loads, given your eave height. As you are possibly considering utilization of ganged (double) trusses, and will need larger columns anyhow, you may want to consider increasing column spacing to 12 feet on center. Fewer holes to dig, fewer columns to set and your budget will be much happier. In any case, I would encourage you to invest in a fully engineered building – any possible savings you might believe you would attain without engineering, will be quickly eaten up when you have a failure.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I’m wondering if this would be structurally sound with a top floor on it? It would be meant as a home/business. I work in the commercial construction industry I guess the other question is do you have any of these in New Hampshire? Please let me know what you think and Thank you. JOE in HUDSON

DEAR JOE: My own post-frame building has a 48′ x 60′ main center section. Downstairs has a clearspan floor (yes, spanning 48 feet), with a 16 foot high ceiling. Upstairs is a full living area, again with 16 foot high ceilings. A portion of this upper level also has a small mezzanine. Overall building height at peak of roof is 44 feet. So, in answer to your question – fully engineered post-frame construction lends itself very well to multiple stories (up to three stories and 40′ tall sidewalls, or four stories and 50′ tall sidewalls with fire suppression sprinklers). We have provided over 100 of our buildings to clients in New England states, including a dozen or so in New Hampshire.

 

Knee Bracing, Flying Gable Trim, and Ventilation Needs

This week the Pole Barn Guru answers reader questions about the removal of knee bracing to install interior ceiling and wall steel, a question about a special rake trim for a flying gable, and the possibility of adding ceiling liner panels to a structure and the need for a vapor barrier and proper ventilation.

Pole Barn Knee BracesDEAR POLE BARN GURU: Can I remove my knee bracing from the pole barn and put up interior ceiling and wall steel. I have a 60×104 pole barn on an 8″ wide 4′ high concrete wall with wet set braces (6×6 laminated beams. 8′ on center) ceiling is 16′ from floor my knee bracing takes up too much wall storage space. They brought them too far down the wall. About 6′. SEAN in MONTPELIER

DEAR SEAN: While knee braces generally cause far more structural harm, than good, they should never be removed without written authorization from whomever your building’s engineer is. If your building was not engineered (hopefully it was), then you should at least request written authorization from your provider including verification their removal will not affect any structural warranty.

In this article, another person dealt with similar issues: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2015/11/can-i-take-out-knee-braces/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: How do I trim out a metal ribbed roof panel on a barn with a widows peak? How do I make it match up with the rake trim? While maintaining proper drainage. KEVIN in LINCOLN

DEAR KEVIN: Your building kit provider should have had delivered to you one or more ‘special’ rake trims (one long side like a standard rake/corner trim, other flat with a hem) and some Emseal expanding closures. Here are your installation instructions: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2016/05/9-steps-constructing-widows-peak/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole barn with a scissor truss (interior sloped ceiling) at 8′ on center. The builder placed insulation between the trusses and are kept from sagging by perpendicular metal straps approximately 2′ apart. When the breeze blows into the shop, the insulation batts float up and down like waves. I was thinking of installing a metal ceiling. I am concerned about the 8′ span between trusses and the possible need for a vapor barrier. What do you recommend? GREG in HUDSON

vented-closure-stripDEAR GREG: Hopefully you have vented eave soffits and ridge cap in correct ratios as lack of ventilation or too much or too little in wrong places can cause challenges (please read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2018/03/adequate-eave-ridge-ventilation/).

In your Climate Zone a ceiling vapor barrier should prove unnecessary. While I would not span eight feet with ceiling liner panels, I do see it being done successfully by many builders and specifiers.

 

Pouring Concrete Against Wall Steel


Reader CHRISTI in INOLA writes:


“Is it standard practice to pour concrete above the base trim of the building? In the attached photos you can see the red chalk line where the concrete will come up to. Help! They are coming this week to pour.”

Gentle inquirers, if you want a relatively quickly (or in this instance a 9-1-1) please include an email address to respond to. Christi has an immediate issue, however left no contact information, so all I can hope is to preempt previously scheduled posts and hope she sees this Monday.

There are a plethora of wrongs happening here, however a solution exists for every challenge.

Concrete should never be poured up against steel siding and/or trim. Never, ever.

Because?

According to National Ready Mixed Concrete Association (www.nrmca.org), “For steel embedded in concrete, corrosion results in formation of rust which has two to four times the volume of the original steel and none of its good mechanical properties”.

Steel roll-former’ warranties will be void in cases with concrete poured against steel siding.

How did this building get to this point?

This happens to not be a Hansen Pole Building, where close attention to plan details and Construction Manual instructions would have entirely avoided this challenge.

Given that the bottom of the steel siding almost entirely covers pressure preservative treated splash plank, my educated guess would be plans assumed top of concrete slab would be placed even to bottom of splash planks.  Concrete finishers appear to have not received this memo.

I am finding it difficult to believe these professional concrete guys seriously do not know better. They should have been discussing this situation with the building owner before they did anything! It appears concrete pour has been formed up so as top of interior slab and top of driveway are the same height. Rebar has been placed continuous from exterior to interior and no provision has been made for an expansion joint between. In combination I am questioning this contractor’s capability.

How to solve….

Remove wainscot panels, base and overhead door jamb trim from front of building. It appears there exists an interior steel liner, therefore remove all liner panels. Cut off wood overhead door jambs ½ inch above eventual top of concrete. Completely wipe chalk lines off all steel panels.

Have concrete finisher change rebar to be discontinuous between interior and exterior. An expansion joint needs to be placed between the  interior and exterior. Top of the driveway should be lower than top of the interior slab and driveway should be sloped away from thr building.

After concrete has well cured, reinstall interior and exterior base trim. Drip leg of base trim should remain ½ inch above top of concrete. Trim top edge of jamb trims so bottom will finish to same height as bottom of base trim. Trim top of wainscot panels so when installed bottom edge of wainscot will be 1/8” above flat of base trim when installed.

Although not ideal, bottom of liner panels can be trimmed off. If tops were to be trimmed, screw holes in steel would not align with wall framing. Same rules apply to relationship between liner base trim and liner panels.

New screws should be used when reinstalling both exterior and liner panels.