Tag Archives: post decay

Determining Rot in Existing Horse Barn Poles

Determining Rot in Existing Horse Barn Poles

Loyal reader KEVIN in EFLAND writes:

“Hello! First, thank you for all the super helpful information about pole barns! Now the context and question…. We’re thinking about making an offer on a house with a 5 stall horse pole barn, probably close to 30 poles, maybe 1,000 square feet. The house was built in 2007 so I assume the barn was built the same year and certainly built before 2012. The site is all clay. I suspect the poles were not treated for UC-4b but don’t see any signs of rot. So, I think if I have one question it is there a person in this area (Efland, Mebane, Hillsborough NC) that could inspect the barn and let me know what they think? Poles are rotting or not rotting… If they are rotting, here’s how long the poles will still be OK, here’s a plan and cost to replace them, etc. Now, if you afforded me a second question, short of digging 6 inches deep around every pole to look for rot, are there things I can do to see if there is an issue? The barn itself still looks nice and square… no noticeable sag. There’s certainly some rot on a small, maybe 4 foot portion of what I think is the sill plate. Thank you for your help!”

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated.

Clay-heavy soil creates significant challenges for structural lumber because its poor drainage prevents natural drying process necessary to inhibit fungal proliferation. When under treated columns are embedded in these environments, surrounding earth acts as a reservoir for water, maintaining high moisture content required by wood-destroying organisms to thrive and initiate premature decay.

Incorrectly rated lumber can fail prematurely when exposed to aggressive environmental conditions accelerating decay. Primary factor is persistent moisture, as decay fungi require wood’s moisture content to exceed 20 to 25 percent to thrive. Poorly draining soil, such as heavy clay, or areas where water pools around post base maintain this high moisture content, creating an ideal habitat for rot. Constant saturation also promotes chemical preservatives leaching into surrounding soil.

Soil chemistry also affects preservative longevity. Highly acidic soils (e.g., in peat bogs or areas with high organic matter) are aggressive toward copper-based preservatives and accelerate their depletion. Site-specific factors, including soil type, geology, and climate, directly influence rate biocides (treatment chemicals) are lost. Decay is a biological process driven by fungi and, in some regions, subterranean termites.

While treated wood resists these biological attackers, a consistently warm and wet environment increases potential for decay organisms. Fungi thrive between 50 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit, meaning southern regions with high humidity present a greater decay hazard than cooler, drier climates.

Reliable local professionals in your area can be found through digital matching services where you can provide specific details about your barn to receive relevant quotes. When interviewing candidates, it is essential to ask for a customer reference list and their specific experience with wood-frame decay or post-foundation issues to ensure they are right fit for your property.

Structural engineering firms often offer specialized condition assessments going beyond standard home inspections, making them well-suited for identifying whether post rot compromises your barn’s structural stability. Standard industry practices for moisture inspection often involve using a probe meter to determine wood’s internal moisture content, crucial in diagnosing potential rot extent. Licensed and certified experts are required to perform these calculations, as mistakes in structural repair can be extremely dangerous and jeopardize anyone near buildings safety.

Flat rate pricing is common for these assessment types, with structural engineers typically charging $550 on average for an inspection and necessary structural calculations. Depending on your pole barn’s complexity and how easily accessible posts are for testing, you may find costs range from $300 to $800. Hourly professional fees generally fall between $100 and $250 per hour if work is not billed as a flat rate project. Project success factors depend on clear communication about your goals, so prioritize firms demonstrating responsiveness and provide practical, cost-effective solutions for unique building issues. Hidden defect detection is a primary objective for professionals who perform thorough inspections to ensure your investment remains safe and functional for years to come. Professional oversight ensures any identified rot is addressed according to safety standards, protecting both your property and those who use it.

To determine, on your own, if an embedded pole barn post is rotting, inspect post base for decay signs, such as softness or sponginess when probed with a screwdriver. If screwdriver sinks more than one-quarter inch into wood or feels compromised, it indicates structural failure due to rot.

PVC Pipe for Post Sleeves

Reader TOM in PURVIS shares a concept I had neither seen before nor had I even contemplated – using PVC pipe to protect post frame (pole building) columns from decay.

TOM writes: “ I know your posts are treated, but I live in the damp state of MS. In recent years 3 of my friends have pole barns, all of them very nice. But one in particular, the contractor added 8″ PCV pipe around the outside of the pole inserted into the ground – then concreted the pole. The claim is that this is an additional protection against termites and rot. It does appear to have given more protection from Mother Nature. Do you have an opinion about use of PVC when setting posts?”

Mike the Pole Barn Responds:
Virtually anything can be made out to be a benefit with a convincing argument. In my humble opinion, this builder is truly not adding any value to the buildings, and is potentially setting them up for failure from another act of Mother Nature – wind.
A properly pressure preservative treated column should out live not only us, but probably everyone else who is alive on the planet today (for more on the lifespan of pressure preservative treated wood please read: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2017/12/will-poles-rot-off/).
The eight inch diameter PVC pipe probably just allows a 6×6 column to fit inside. Filling the balance of the pipe with concrete ads no real value as the concrete would never be over an inch and a quarter thick and work fracture under a load – either bending or withdrawl. This leaves whatever material is filled on the outside of the slick PVC surface to resist uplift forces. There is also an issue of connecting the PVC to the column, if unsealed holes are placed through the pipe by screws, bolts, nails, rebar, etc., water is going to get inside the pipe and the entire premise is defeated.
My opinion, if this was such a wonderful idea (and it actually added value) everyone would be doing it – just say no to the PVC pipe column sleeve.

Pressure Treated Posts: When Future Building Owners Think They are Engineers

When I was just a little tyke, my Mother used to watch Art Linkletter’s “House Party”. A highlight of his show was the segment, “Kids Say the Darndest Things”.

I have my own version, “Potential Building Owners Say the Darndest Things”.

Our Building Designer Lauri seems to be a magnet for these lately. Here she shares another one….

“Speaking of the poles. I don’t want to sound like a picky little prig or an officious jerk but I do have a requirement about the bottoms of the poles. I don’t know what your standards are for the poles, but I do not want the bottom of the poles sitting in a concrete cup.

When the holes are dug for the poles I would like them to be dug about a foot deeper than needed. Then the bottom of the hole can be filled with at least 6 inches of cracked limestone or 2B river wash stone.

The poles are then set on the stone and an additional 3 or 4 inches of stone are added to the holes. Then set your cardboard casing and fill it with concrete. This method allows for moisture to drain out of the bottom of the pole thus reducing wood rot. If the poles are set deep enough I think you can get away with out using concrete, that is your call, but if you do use concrete the bottoms of the poles have to be able to drain. That is carved in stone.”

Ah, where to even begin?

Let’s talk about pressure treated posts. Rotting fungi need water to work. Other conditions necessary for wood rot to develop include a supply of oxygen and temperatures between 32 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit. (Decay stops below 35 degrees and above 100 degrees.) Wood becomes susceptible to rot if its moisture content exceeds 25 to 30 percent. Keep wood dry, it will literally last for centuries. On the other extreme, if the wood is 100 percent saturated with water, the decay fungi won’t get the oxygen they need. Decay won’t occur, and the wood can last for centuries.

Nowadays building columns are pressure preservative treated for structural in ground use. They are designed to last lifetimes, under the most adverse conditions. If the soil at the site drains well, there is no reason to place rock or gravel beneath or under a column to “drain water away”. If the soil at the site does retain water, any gravel in or around the base actually becomes a collection basin for water, rather than allowing water to drain “off”.  In a quick summary, this customer came up with a poor investment in rock and the labor to dig deeper holes. Plus, this person added chance of the building settling due to inadequate compaction of the stone.

Other previous blogs have covered topics such as the lifespan of pressure treated posts, the need for concrete column backfill to resist settlement, uplift and over turning, as well as why not to use “cardboard casing” (better known as sonotubes).

While I appreciate customers who are concerned about the longevity of their buildings, it is best to leave the structural design of buildings to the experts – registered design professionals (RDP’s).  A RDP (or P.E., i.e. Professional Engineer) has not only the complete educational preparation, but also the decades of experience needed to combine proper structural design and efficiency of materials.