Tag Archives: structural design

Rock Solid, Living Quarters, and Better Get an RDP

Today the Pole Barn Guru responds to readers questions regarding assistance in designing that is “rock solid for generations to come” using the reader’s own sawn lumber, a questions about adding a living quarter to an insulated building, and advice in bracing a post frame building better suited for a registered design professional.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Greetings, been following you on Facebook for a while and thought I’d reach out. I’m looking to build a pole building in Oregon, roughly 60×120, pretty flexible on designing and I’m sawing my own wood for the project, except for the trusses. I don’t need stamped engineered plans, I will be building it myself as an ag building that doesn’t require permit. However, I do need help with the design to make sure that its rock solid for generations to come. Is this something that you could help me with? Thank you in advance and kind regards. OMER in EUGENE

DEAR OMER: Thank you for being a loyal follower. Although I certainly have the ability to do your structural design, I prefer not as it would place me in a position of liability as well as practicing engineering without a license. Even though you are building a permit exempt agricultural building, I would encourage you to build from engineered plans – as you say you want it to be “rock solid for generations to come”. Only having it fully engineered is going to give you this sort of assurance. Sawing your own wood is also problematic https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/01/free-home-milled-lumber/ unless you have an ability to dry it to under 19% moisture content, surface (plane) it and have it grade stamped by a certified lumber grader.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a insulated pole building (sides and roof). I am framing in a small living quarter within the building and want to know if there are issues if I insulate the living quarters and should I put a vapor barrier on the inside framing? There is a 2″ gap behind the 2×4 wall and the current insulation/vapor barrier. I could leave the 2″ gap all the way to the attic or I can seal that, but assume best if I let the air gap breath. Attached is a picture. Look forward to your advice and thank you in advance. JIM in DEER PARK

DEAR JIM: If you were to leave this two inch gap open on top, it does defeat any insulation value potentially gained from having wall Metal Building Insulation. If you can tightly seal this air space, it will actually help to increase your heating/cooling efficiency. Should you do so, you should use unfaced rock wool/mineral wool batts and not add an interior vapor barrier. This will cause your space to dry to the inside, so mechanical dehumidification may prove necessary. Should you choose to leave gap open, you can used faced batts.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 40″ side wall pole barn with rough cut red oak 6″ x 6″ posts on 8″ centers. The posts are bolted to engineered U braces that are secured in the concrete. The top of the posts have 2″ x 8″ rough cut red oak inside and out secured with through bolts. The bottom of the posts where they are secured to the u braces seem to me as a pivot point. Would “Y” bracing from the top down to about 4 foot to the center of each post be sufficient, or do I need to come down to the bottom near the U braces and run a board all the way across the 40 foot span and then 1 in the middle and “W” brace the side walls. I was thinking of keeping it open with the oak sealed with linseed oil or equivalent for looks, but could close in the sides. Thanks RUSS in STUARTS DRAFT

DEAR RUSS: Thank you for reaching out to me. Your dilemma should ideally be solved by a Registered Professional Engineer, however your build is going to add a degree of complexity and liability most engineers do not want to take on – ungraded rough sawn lumber. I would recommend you contact a few local engineers, as anyone interested in taking this on should come to your building site and do a thorough analysis of what you have. From this, they may be able to design engineered repairs for anything they find to be structurally inadequate.

 

 

Why Is Engineering Design So Important?

Why is Engineering Design so Important?

Reprinted from the National Frame Building Association (www.NFBA.org) of November 2021

As we see in Chapter 1 of the Post Frame Building Design Manual (PFBDM), post frame construction has been around for hundreds of years. The performance, life expectancy, and reduction of material and labor costs are all reasons that this type of construction is becoming more popular today. We see not only construction in agricultural settings, but residential construction is rapidly growing in today’s price and time conscious market. However, structural design is critical to ensure long life and adequate performance of the building.

There is little question that quite a number of post frame buildings have been around for many years without the benefit of structural design prior to construction. There is also little question that building failures are due to inadequate construction and overloading (both snow and wind) are becoming more common. We often hear about “post frame” construction that has failed and upon inspection we find that the original construction was inadequate to meet the expected loads.

1. Roof diaphragms not adequately connected to roof trusses and purlins.

2. Roof trusses and headers modified for particular end uses, such as tall equipment, without the benefit of engineering design.

3. Posts “embedded” into the soil only 12 to 18 inches are common pictures provided from building failure investigations.

We are not saying that the way contractors have been building post frame construction for many years is wrong. However, due to increased loading (from changes in weather patterns) and material changes such as a decrease in strength of wood products due to accelerated growing or the use of screws and nail guns; the design of buildings today is far more complex than the original over designed buildings that were constructed years ago.

Many times builders and owners are after the fastest and least expensive construction they can find. Post frame construction, with wider spacing of posts and trusses, is often the solution they find. These goals can be realized through post frame construction, but construction of an adequate structure does come at a cost. Engineering design is the key to making sure that each element of post frame construction works to transfer the loads safely to the foundation of the structure. Everything from the thickness and strength of the roof deck through the connections to the trusses and in turn through the connections of the trusses to the posts or headers are keys to making the building work. Engineers, familiar with the design requirements of post frame construction through the PFBDM and other sources, are able to ensure that the expected loads will not overburden the structure.

One other area of construction that does require significant attention is the foundation of the post frame building. In many cases, posts must be buried into the soil to a depth below the frost line. This ensures that the building will not heave during the changes from fall to winter to spring each year. Too often we find that posts are inadequately buried in the soil and/or that no uplift restraint is included to prevent the building from failure at the foundation level. There are ways to make the foundation work properly. These methods are well documented in the post frame practices used by the design engineers. Understanding the foundation requirements and how to implement them in post frame construction is a key task for the post frame design engineer.

Finally, as post frame construction moves into the residential market, the requirements placed upon construction by building code become more apparent. Proof, at the plan check stage, is becoming more of a requirement for residential construction. On several occasions, the question has come up whether we should develop “prescriptive” construction requirements for residential buildings. Unfortunately, there are far too many variables from building height, to loading patterns (both snow and wind), and to the owner’s requirement that he gets “more than just a rectangular box”. Again, these unique requirements call for a design professional to mathematically prove that the structure and the materials used will be adequate for long-term performance.

The phrase “pay me now or pay me later” too often comes into play when the structure is not designed to meet the potential loads. To avoid this, the building code requires structural design calculations to be included with the submission for a building permit. The way “post frame construction has always been done” may be adequate to meet the loading requirements, but in today’s cost-cutting world one must be sure that we are not asking too much from materials or construction that are included in a design.

A Silly Extreme Example

I’m a voracious reader. A large portion of my daily reading is devoted to learning as much as I can about my industry and expanding my knowledge base.

On LinkedIn, I am a member of the “Truss, Panel & Building Components” discussion group. One of the members, Gene Marcoux, from Florida, had postulated, “If we have a chance to reshape the way things are going to be done, wouldn’t it make sense to have the whole structure engineered for structural integrity….”

I happen to personally agree with Gene’s statement. If a design professional did not do the structural design of your new pole building, then who did?

Building Code Book

IBC Building Code Book

Keymark Enterprises, Inc., of Colorado, provides structural engineering and precision manufacturing of wood components (such as trusses and wall panels). Their account representative, Steve Cummings had this take on the subject:

“In perhaps a silly, extreme example, think about a 20×24 garage on a farm in Kentucky. Right now there is no government check that it will conform to current code, no engineering requirement, no permit required, no inspection necessary. We all know, from experience and training, how to build this garage. What is the value of the increased requirements vs. the cost of building departments, inspectors, engineers and designers?”

In my humble opinion, while an industry expert may know how to properly construct this pole building, not everyone is an expert. All it takes is one error in the design of a connection (too few nails, nails too closely spaced, an incorrect hanger, etc.) or sizing of a structural member and a catastrophic collapse could be the result.

The Building Code purpose “is intended to provide minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety, health and general welfare through structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, adequate light and ventilation, energy conservation, and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment”.

In having no permit requirements, there is no one to insure the goals of the codes are met. Are we willing to sacrifice a life or lives, due to deficient design, all in the name of saving a few dollars?

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