Tag Archives: shingles

Ask the Builder

Ask The Builder

Tim Carter just celebrated his 25th anniversary of his “Ask the Builder” syndicated newspaper column. When I began writing “Ask the Pole Barn Guru”, I was unaware of Tim and his column.

To commemorate this event, Tim penned this article: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/sep/29/ask-the-builder-reflections-on-25-years-writing-ab/.

There are some highlights of Mr. Carter’s I totally agree with and would like to expound upon.

“I’ve seen many good things happen over the past 25 years with respect to building products, and I’ve seed disturbing trends emerge with respect to product longevity and the quality produced by tradespeople who build your new homes and additions, and who install new roofs.

The straw that broke the camel’s back at my house was asphalt shingles. My 30-year-warranty asphalt shingles started to go bad in just 10 years, and I had to replace them a few years later. I was so upset I wrote an expose book, “Roofing Ripoff,” that explains why your roof and mine are falling apart long before they should – and, most importantly, how to avoid premature shingle failure. It’s my opinion that ethics seem to be in short supply, or missing, in the boardrooms of certain manufacturers.

Perhaps the most disturbing trend of all is workmanship quality. One could write a book on all the possible causes, but first and foremost is the removal of the incentive in high school for young people to choose a trade as a rewarding career path. That’s a grave mistake, in my opinion, and you and millions of others are paying for it by dealing with more and more inept, uninspired tradespeople, who seemingly are the new normal.

If I could wave a magic wand right now, I’d make two things happen. I’d bring back and expand all of the vocational school programs. Home building, as well as all trades, would be encouraged as a career as early as grade school.

I’d also make ethics a mandatory course in high school and college, and a core topic at all business schools. The quest for higher and higher profits seems to put far too much pressure on the ethical aspects of business.”

For $19.95, you can own Tim’s book (https://www.amazon.com/Roofing-Ripoff-Asphalt-Shingles-Falling-ebook/dp/B06Y4XWLB2).

Being realistic, roofing manufacturer’s write their warranties to protect themselves, not consumers. Most roof shingle warranties come with some sort of prorated terms. For instance, many warranties will feature a labor and materials replacement cost for first year or some short term up to five and sometimes 10 years. Terms vary but often cover the price of new shingles and a fixed labor rate per 100 square feet of shingles. However, most of them hardly ever cover cost of removing damaged shingles, disposal, fasteners, flashing, vents or other miscellaneous roofing materials.

After the initial period, warranty typically only covers a prorated cost of shingles based upon roof age. So it’s very possible to end up with a roof only five years old with a defective shingle where replacement cost might be $5,000 and you only qualify for $500 based upon warranty.

Real kicker, labor runs 60% to 80% of a roofing job and not shingle cost. Furthermore, most roofing contractors are only going to warranty their workmanship and not labor associated with a manufacturer’s defect.

Considering shingles for your new post frame building? Stop and think twice. Steel roofing will be most affordable and more durable.

When I was in school, my Dad being a builder was cool with my friends – because building contractors then had a reputation for doing quality workmanship. In today’s world, over half of all contractors did not graduate high school. If you are lucky enough to hire a “good one” all-to-often workmanship provided was just enough to get by.

Sadly, it appears fewer and fewer new post frame building clients are willing to attempt doing their own work – even though doing it themselves will most often result in a far better end result. When it’s YOUR building, you care enough to do things carefully and “right”.

 

Considering a Pole Barn, Roof Loads, and Proper Ventilation

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Good morning.

I am considering building a pole barn on our land in northwest Georgia and wanted to know the following:

1) On your website, you list links for residential, agricultural, and commercial buildings.  What is the difference between a those three types of buildings?  Are they different because of design or do they each involve different construction materials?  Do the commercial buildings use a lower gauge (thicker) sheet of metal for siding than a residential building?

2) Do you have any product comparison documentation between your kits and the other pole barn kits on the market (DIY, Menards, etc.)?  Interested specifically in design, material, and construction comparisons.

3) Would your pole barn kits be able to accommodate a chimney/stove pipe if I wanted to use a wood burning stove for heat?

Thanks! CHRIS in RISING FAWN

About Hansen BuildingsDEAR CHRIS: The differences for residential, agricultural and commercial buildings shown on our website are for the convenience of those who are looking for a particular end use, it keeps from having to browse through a plethora of photos of buildings which may not be what one is looking for. The construction materials and methods used are going to be individually tailored to the ultimate end needs of each client, as well as the climactic conditions of a particular site.

Our goal is to custom design for you a building which best meets your wants, needs and budget. We are so confident in our ability to provide the best possible value for your post frame building investment, once this is done, we would happily shop this building for you with any other provider or providers you so desire. How easy is this?

(BTW – Menards might be a bit geographically challenging as their nearest location to you is in Owensboro, KY)

Actually any post frame building (not just a Hansen Pole Building) can accommodate a chimney/stove pipe with the use of a Dektite® (read more here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2012/09/dektite/).

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a 30 year old pole barn that is 30’ x 40’ x 9’ tall. It has a metal roof, trusses are 4’ on center. Can I tear off the metal on the roof and put down OSB and shingles? JIM in LAWTON

DEAR JIM: Chances are excellent your existing roof system is not designed to support the weight of OSB and shingles, as most pole barn (post frame) trusses are designed for a dead load of only 3 to 5 psf (pounds per square foot) which includes the weight of the trusses themselves plus the roof purlins. Steel roofing weighs in at under one pound per square foot. 7/16″ OSB comes in at roughly 1.5 psf, 15# felt and shingles 2.5 psf making the weight combination more than four times greater than the steel.

The big question is – why? Even “lifetime” shingles will usually last only about 15 years and you know the steel roofing you have had made it twice as long. Steel is far more impervious to weather (especially hail) and readily sheds snow, unlike shingles. For my money, if I had to re-roof I would invest in steel roofing with a high quality paint system like Kynar. Read more about Kynar here: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2014/05/kynar/.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I have a pole building with all metal sheeting. The interior walls are framed and insulated R13 batt. The ceiling is insulated with 1/2 foam a 3/4″ air gap then R19 on top. The underside of the roof is not insulated. I have eave ridge vent. Building is heated in winter. Can I exhaust fumes (paint,lawnmower,etc.) into the attic space and let it vent out the ridge or will I be causing a condensation problem? I will use a standard box fan to blow exhaust into the attic space. I’m also hoping to do this to help melt snow off the roof.
Thanks. RICH in LEHIGHTON

crash-test-dummy-symbolDEAR RICH: I’ve seriously struggled with your question for several weeks now. It lead me to spend hours researching the International Mechanical Code (I am proficient in the IRC and IBC, but not the IMC), looking for backup as to your scenario. In the end it all comes down to this – WHY would you want to dump toxic fumes and their waste into your attic? At some point this has got to be just plain unhealthy.

Whether you do or do not blow exhausts into your attic, your building has the strong potential for a condensation problem because there is no thermal break below the roof steel. You should look at having closed cell spray foam installed on the underside of the roof steel.

As to the heat from the exhaust helping to melt snow off the roof – do not count on it, by the time it gets into your attic, the heat generated will be minimal at best.

What Thickness OSB to use Under Shingles

What Thickness OSB to Use Under Shingles

Reader JOSH in POST FALLS writes:

“My pole building is going to have asphalt shingles. I know how much you dislike shingles vs a metal roof, but the garage needs to match the house. My question is what thickness of OSB should I use? I saw 7/16″ in Appendix VI in your guide, but wasn’t sure if that was adequate in my case. My trusses are 10′ OC and purlins are 2′ OC with a 50# snow load. I’ve seen a lot of random chit chat on forums about roof sag and such, but none of the posters seems to have any substance to back up their “guesses” about what is really adequate. Looking forward to hearing your expertise on the subject.”

Mike the Pole Barn Guru writes:


Deflection is the dictate here – the IBC (International Building Code) allows for maximum deflection of a shingled roof to be l/180 for live plus dead loads or l/240 for live loads only. Keep in mind, these are the maximum allowable deflections – which means under a full design load you can expect to see a deflection (sag) between the purlins of over 1/8″. Of course these loads will only be experienced with a roof covered with snow, which means you are not able to see the sag.

The tables in the Code itself do not cover your live load, so a trip to the TECO® OSB Design and Application Guide tables is necessary. You need to find a sheathing with a span rating of at least 32/16, which means either 15/32″ or 1/2″ thick OSB. With this thickness any deflection under dead loads only (the weight of materials only) should prove to be imperceptible.

For the curious – 7/16” OSB has a span rating of 24/16 and with supports every 24 inches is good for a roof live load of 40 psf (pounds per square foot) with a 10 psf dead load. The thickness required by Josh’s circumstances are good for roof snow loads of up to 70 psf (again spanning 24”). For heavier loads – a 40/20 rated panel (19/32” or 5/8”) will support a 130 psf live load and 48/24 rated panels (23/32” or ¾”) are good to175 psf!

If deflection (sag) is a concern, there is really only one time to decide to err on the side of conservatism and go with a thicker panel – before you make the investment!

 

Steel Roofing: Hail, Hail the Gang’s all Here

A couple weeks ago I posted about vinyl siding damage due to hail storms in the Knoxville, Tennessee area. Vinyl siding was not the only thing damaged – on my four mile running loop are numerous yard signs from roofers. The roofers are replacing shingles which were damaged by the same storm.

When I first began providing building kits in the Midwest, I was stymied by the number of clients in Michigan who were asking for shingled roofs, instead of steel.

Initially, I thought this must be a regional aesthetics thing. My curiosity finally got the best of me, so I asked about it. The answer – fear of steel roofing being damaged by hail! I never would have guessed.

My first reaction was to call each of the six steel companies who supply steel roofing and siding for our buildings. Only one of them had ever even had a claim submitted to them for hail damage! This certainly seemed contrary to the perception of pole building clients in Michigan.

Metal roofs are very tough and highly resistant to hail damage.  Hail will not penetrate a metal roof.  Even a new asphalt shingle roof won’t protect a home from the next hailstorm.  In fact, many metal roofing products have the highest impact resistance and hail rating (Class 4) granted by Underwriters’ Laboratory (UL).  This means that a sample of the product did not crack when hit twice in the same spot by a 2-inch steel ball, which, in a storm, would translate into a huge hailstone.  As a result of metal roofing’s superior performance in hail prone areas, some insurance companies even provide a reduced rate for homes protected by metal roofs.

The durability of the metal roofs along my running route would seemingly back up the tested results – nowhere along my running loop was a single steel roof being replaced, or even showing signs of cosmetic damage.  My son’s new garage in Maryville, TN, (built less than a year ago), has a steel roof and has not a dent or even a hint of one on his roof.  I’d like to think this is where we got the phrase, “Strong as Steel!”

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