Tag Archives: pole building overhangs

One More Reason to Love DIYers

DIY – Do It Yourself.

Frankly, 99+ % of you DIYers are absolutely the greatest people on the planet. You are fun to work with, you follow directions and take pride in your own job very well done. I have serious man-crushes on many of you (I love you for your brains, not your bodies)!

Not everyone has the time or ability to do their own work. I totally “get it” as I hire work to be done for our household, as I just do not have the time to do it myself.

Here is a snippet of a recent interaction between myself and a client who has hired a builder. Builder might have missed some crucial parts of the Hansen Pole Buildings’ Construction Manual…..

“Hello Hansen Associates,

My builder is here working on the building and he tells me the L trim is short.

I am sending this email to let you know that the AL-2 , 1 1/2″ x 3 1/2″ L Trim order is short.  The take off list listed 6 -10′ 6″  which calculates to 63 feet.

However, the building is 34′ each side which I should have received at a minimum 68′.

enclosed overhangsThe building is 24 x 32 with 1 foot overhangs on the front, right side and rear wall, with a 4′ cantilever on the left sidewall.

Would you kindly send another piece of L trim in White ? Thank You for your assistance.”

I believe I was generally able to craft a fairly tactful response, as there really is no cause to get a client railing against a builder who may otherwise have been doing a wonderful job:

Dear Mr. Xxxxx;
If you could please have your builder confirm the trim has been used in the proper location. These trims are for the lower edge of the varge rafters. Therefore, it takes as much footage of them as you have roof steel.

2 ends X (13’8.5″ + 16’10.5″) = 61.12′ <= 63′ sent.

Our concern is perhaps the builder has inadvertently placed them somewhere we did not anticipate. Perhaps a photo or two showing where he has placed them would prove helpful.

Surprisingly enough, we received this response from our client:

You are correct the builder used the L trim as the starting strip for the roofing deck at the fascia, which he used to attach the inside closure strip under the roof panels.”

 Most interesting, there is nowhere in the 500 plus pages of the Hansen Pole Buildings installation instructions which would show this installation as done by the builder. In fact, as best as we can recall, this is the first time we have had a client (or their builder) make this error.

Is It Really An Overhang?

When an Overhang Maybe Isn’t an Overhang

Recently Hansen Pole Buildings Designer Doug forwarded to me a quote one of our clients had received from a pole building company located about a four-hour drive from our offices in Browns Valley, MN. To both Doug and myself, the quote appeared to be highly lacking in important details – such as what version of the Building Code (if any) is it to be designed to? And, what is the design wind speed and wind exposure? Just some minor trifling things which could make a world of difference in a building standing, or blowing away.

steel-overhangOne thing I did happen to notice was the sidewall overhangs – which they had listed as being six inches of steel only.

Will the steel even carry the load?

This building happens to be in an area where the ground snow load is 60 psf (pounds per square foot) and they had proposed a roof truss with a 42 psf top chord live load. In snow country, eaves are to be designed to support two times the roof load, as snow will melt above the enclosed portion of the building and freeze in the overhanging area.

This particular pole builder uses Metal Sales 29 gauge Classic Rib for roofing (https://www.metalsales.us.com/system/files/resources/condensed-technical-reference-sheets/classic-rib-ctr-2015.pdf). It will support 81 psf (pounds per square foot) on a two foot span. This is based upon being supported at both edges, in which the formula is WL^2/8, where an overhang is a cantilever or WL^2/2. So we now have 4 times the load, over the square root of ¼ of the span.

Taking 81 psf X 2’ X 2’ / 0.5’ / 0.5’ = 1296 / 4 = 324, so the steel is strong enough.

But, how about the practicality?

Most jurisdictions now require buildings to be guttered. The only problem with the steel overhanging by six inches is any rain runoff will now fly entirely over the top of any gutters! The ideal length of steel overhang for gutters happens to be 1-1/2 to 1-3/4” past any high rib on a steel covered wall, or fascia with properly done overhangs!

Need to get up onto the roof for some reason? A ladder cannot be placed up against the edge of the steel and it means having to work up and over (or down and over) when getting on or off the roof. For most folks, this is less than convenient.

Believe it or not, there was a significantly sized post frame building company which used to (and still may) do one foot overhangs – by just running the steel past the sidewalls unsupported! Without some explanation from a salesperson, there is a good chance the unsuspecting customer doesn’t realize what it is they are, or worse aren’t…getting!

Cantilever Roof Overhangs

Seemingly if it is the strange, unusual or near impossible (although we have been told a few times we can do the impossible) in post frame (pole) building construction, there is a good chance we have been involved in it!

Cantilever Roof OverhangA circumstance which is becoming more and more prevalent is cantilever roof overhangs. When I shop for something big, like a house, car or pole building, I have my eyes wide open when I am driving around. I might spot something which truly catches my eye.

Many of us, I am sure, are familiar with the traditional gabled roofline, peak in the center of the enclosed portion, then a “side shed” roof only attached to one or both sides.

One downside of the cantilever roof overhang is the side shed roof has to have some slope (ideally no less than 3/12 – https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2014/11/pitch-breaks/).

In some instances, structural columns at the outside edge of the “shed” are not always desirable. The roof can then be constructed with cantilever roof trusses. I normally do not like to cantilever more than 1/3 of the span of the truss. An example would be using a 36’ span truss, to create a 12’ cantilevered area on a 24’ wide enclosed pole building.

Last summer my friends Sheri and Larry sold the biker bar Cruisers at State Line, ID to another friend of mine, Justin Veo. It still maintains the friendly atmosphere and is always entertaining: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/blog/2013/05/pole-building-13/. For those interested, the latest events are posted at: https://www.facebook.com/CruisersBikerBarAndGrill?rf=157713810959122

The reason for my mention of Cruisers is due to the main bar pole building having a cantilever roof overhang along the South (street) side. This area affords a place for picnic tables to be placed out of the sun and inclement weather.

These cantilever roof overhangs can be finished by either running the siding up the main enclosed area roof, or by using colored steel panels or other material as a flat level return back to the main wall.

Ask the Pole Barn Guru: What Size Trusses Do I Need?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment. 

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I am having trouble determining what sort of trusses I will need for my barn.  The walls are 2x6x12, 16 OC with a double plate on top.  I need a two foot overhang all the way around.  I am going to sheet with steel and using purlins.  How do I build the overhangs and what trusses will I need? The pitch is 4/12 and I wish to use a 12″ energy heel. WONDERING IN WISCONSIN

 DEAR WONDERING: I have to confess, I am wondering too. The International Building Code (IBC) , in Section 2308 spells out the requirements for conventional light-frame construction, “Other methods are permitted to be used, provided a satisfactory design is submitted showing compliance with other provisions of this code” (which means a registered design professional (RDP)– engineer or architect has provided the design). Section 2308.2.2 of the IBC states, “Bearing wall height shall not exceed a stud height of 10 feet.” This very same language is in the Wisconsin Building Code.

The building plans you paid your RDP to design, should have all of the necessary information on them, for a truss manufacturer to be able to adequately quote the trusses required for your project. Give a copy of the plans to the truss company, and they can take it from there.

If, by some chance, you were erroneously issued a Building Permit without RDP designed plans – you may want to consider consulting with an engineer.

On to the specifics of your question. The truss company needs to know the dimensions of your building – width, length and height. Given you have used stud walls, I would recommend spacing the trusses 24 inches on center, so you will need a quantity of the length of the building divided by two, plus one. The span of the trusses will be the measure from outside of stud wall, to outside of stud wall. Tell them you want two foot overhangs, and a 12 inch energy heel.

Given your location, I would recommend a design with 40 pounds per square foot (psf) roof live load, at least 7 psf roof dead load and at least 5 psf bottom chord dead load. If your building site is open to the wind in one or more directions – be sure the trusses are designed for a “C” wind exposure.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: My mom is dieing and I’m having to sell things, do you know what I should sell the pole barn fame for? The walls from the ground to the bottom of the roof trusses is 10 ft 5 In it is 27 feet long and 24 feet wide, the poles are 6×6, it has opening for 2 big doors one in the front and one in the back, it has never had any plywood put on it it is a open frame , not sure if the poles are just drop in the ground or cemented in, but I need to sell it and I need to get a good price, anyone have a good idea what to charge ? It has no doors just a wood frame no skin on it at all. Muddling in Michigan

DEAR MUDDLING: While this is not the answer you want to hear – the reality is the cost of the labor to take it apart and haul it away, is greater than the value of the materials. Even if you were lucky enough to get someone to pay a few dollars for it on Craigslist, unless they are insured, the risk of them being injured as they are taking it down, is not worth what little you might gain.  You may have enough to deal with right now, but taking it down and the selling the parts may be less risky – for both parties. All my best to you in this difficult time.

Overhangs, not Hung-over

Just my personal opinion, but I feel every building should have overhangs. How important are they in my book? I would rather do without doors, than without overhangs. Doors can be added in later on; with overhangs there is only one opportunity to do it right, or wrong.

Here is a place where size matters. Pick an overhang which extends too far out from the building and it looks disproportionately large. One of my clients placed a two foot overhang on an eight foot eave building. While it afforded great protection from the elements, the overhangs dwarfed the building and made it appear to always be in the shadows.

The general rule of thumb for size is: with 10’ and shorter eave heights go with 12 inch overhangs. Over 10’ eave, but under 16’ eave – use 18 inch overhangs. 16’ eave and higher go with 24 inch overhangs. These are not “hard and fast” rules, as looks are subjective, but they do provide a place to begin.  And what looks “large” in your mind or on a tape measure will appear much smaller when it’s on your building 18 to 20 feet above you.  Even if your building has a 10’ eave height, if the overall footprint is large, a 12” overhang appears like putting a “too small” hat on your head – like it just doesn’t belong there.

And where do we place overhangs? When I was a builder, one of my then competitors used to only place overhangs on the front endwall, of buildings where the large door was in the end. The idea, of course, was to protect the doors (at least somewhat) from the weather, as well as to at least provide some sort of overhang at the least cost possible. In reality, the overhang gave very little protection, and it created an optical illusion of the building falling forward.  Putting overhangs only on the sidewalls if your doors are in an endwall gives an appearance of an airplane with its wings out and ready to take off from the runway. Keep your building “on the ground”, balance it, and choose overhangs which “fit”.

My recommendation is to go looking around your neighborhood for a building of a similar size, see if you like the looks of the overhangs on it and then get your tape measure out and see what size they really are (or stop and ask).  Some folks like matching sizes of overhangs to the other buildings on their property.  Again, I’d let the overall size and eave height of each building dictate the overhang width.  It all comes down to…personal preference.

In most cases – I would recommend placing an overhang anywhere on the building it can be placed. On some buildings, this means more than just all four sides. With a monitor barn, or a building with a dropped side shed (high side of shed attaches below the eave height of the main building), there may be overhangs possible on both ends plus three or four side locations. On a building with “steps” or drops in the eave height, multiple endwall overhang locations are possible.  If you have an end which has no doors and for the most part is to the rear of your property – meaning no one sees it and has no protective value, this is where to leave them off, if at all.