Tag Archives: pole barn basement

Attic Space, Cost Effective Size, and Column Sizing

This week the Pole barn Guru answers reader questions regarding a 6ft attic space over a 30×44 pole barn, the most “cost effective” method to build, and the point at which a post increased from a 6×6 to a 6×8.

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: We want a decent-height (a bit over 6ft) attic space in our 30×44 pole barn (on a concrete slab foundation), can we use steel trusses or would wood trusses be a better option for this? The ground floor ceiling height is 8ft. Thnx for the help. RON in TONEY

DEAR RON: Lots of possible design solutions available. To begin with, I would recommend wood trusses – should you ever want to finish a ceiling, or if you want to have a product fabricated under strict quality control standards, then wood trusses are your best choice. On to options…. #1 My favorite. Make your building tall enough to have a full second floor. This will give you greatest usable space and best resale value. By using prefabricated wood floor trusses, you can still have a clearspan floor (no posts below) and it provides an unencumbered space below without columns to dodge. Yes, it will be a greater investment, but one you will probably never regret. #2 Prefab wood ‘bonus room’ trusses. With a steep enough slope (roughly 8/12) you can end up with an eight foot ceiling height at center and a room roughly 10-12 feet in width. For amount of space being gained, this is a fairly costly design solution. #3 Increase sidewall height and use scissor trusses to allow for a central mezzanine supported by columns. While likely to be your least expensive design solution, you will be faced with columns below (unless opting to again add in floor trusses.

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: What is the most cost efficient size to build (Can I save money by buying a specific width/ length/ height?) What are the pros and cons of choosing metal frame or post frame? Is it still true that you can add square footage more affordably by building up (adding a second floor)? Can you put a basement under a Barn House? ANNIE in FORT LUPTON

DEAR ANNIE: As you get closest to square, your costs per square foot will decrease slightly. This is due to having less exterior wall surface, although it does not necessarily lend itself best to layout of rooms. For post frame construction, your most efficient use of materials typically comes from multiples of 12 feet in width and length. Work from inside out – do not try to fit your wants and needs within a pre-ordained box just because someone said using a “standard” size might be cheaper. Differences in dimensions from “standard” are pennies per square foot, not dollars. Post frame will always be your most cost effective structural design solution: https://hansenpolebuildings.com/2022/01/why-your-new-barndominium-should-be-post-frame/ Two story is not necessarily your least expensive design solution: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-one-story-or-two/ And yes, fully engineered post frame buildings can include a full, partial or walk-out basement: https://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/2020/02/barndominium-on-a-daylight-basement/

 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: At what point do the post size change from 6×6 to 8×8, thanks. JEFF in SOUTH HAVEN

Roof Only Riding ArenaDEAR JEFF: If erecting a roof only “pavilion” style post frame building, column dimensions are often dictated by L/d ratio as there is no wind load on totally open sidewalls. “L” is unsupported length of column (grade or top of concrete slab to bottom of truss connection), divided by least dimension of column. Playing a part in this is a factor known as Ke. Ke is determined by fixity of columns. On a roof only structure, columns act as cantilevers (think of a diving board), so Ke = 2.1. Looking at your 5-1/2″ square 6×6, 5.5″ x 50 / 2.1 = 130.95″ (or just under 10’11”). This means at an unsupported length of 11 feet, a 6×6 would fail. Obviously, truss span, spacing, and loads from dead, wind and any snow must be properly factored into equations to be verified by your building’s engineer. Adding an eave sidewall (or sidewalls) with open endwalls will cause bending forces to fail most 6×6 columns at lesser heights.

A Pole Building Basement?

Welcome to Ask the Pole Barn Guru – where you can ask questions about building topics, with answers posted on Mondays.  With many questions to answer, please be patient to watch for yours to come up on a future Monday segment.  If you want a quick answer, please be sure to answer with a “reply-able” email address.

Email all questions to: PoleBarnGuru@HansenPoleBuildings.com

 DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Do you recommend perma columns vs. treated posts? John in Shelbyville, IN DEAR JOHN: I just do not see the practicality in shipping a heavy chunk of concrete, with a bracket embedded into it, across the country. Plus, once it arrives, it has to be manhandled and properly placed into the hole.

Me – I will stick with pressure preservative treated columns embedded in the ground – and then do a mono-pour around them. Concrete has a binding value to compacted native soil as a bonus.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: Is it possible to build a pole building over a full basement and what special precautions would that entail? Beverly in Wayne, NE

DEAR BEVERLY:  I happen to live on a lake, which is nestled into a mountain valley. For the most part, the parcels of land around the lake tend to be very narrow and very steep (only so much lake frontage exists, therefore the narrow lots). In my case, the lot gains well over 100 feet of elevation from lake to back, over the 250 feet of depth.

 With the lake as my “front” yard, on the back of my lot is a pole building upon which the site had 12 feet of grade change in 40 feet. The solution was to excavate to the lowest point, then construct a foundation on the “high” sides. In my case, we used eight inch insulated Styrofoam blocks, poured with concrete – one wall being 12 feet tall, and the other sides appropriately steeped to match the land contours. Steel brackets engineered to withstand moment (bending) forces were poured into the top of the walls to attach the pole building columns.

 The direct answer to your question is – yes. Whether a full basement, partial basement, or daylight basement (the last being closest to my particular case), pole buildings can be attached to any adequately designed foundation wall. We prefer to use wet set brackets (those embedded in the concrete wall at time of pour) as opposed to dry set brackets (those attached to the concrete wall with bolts) for a sturdier connection, but either one can be used. 

DEAR POLE BARN GURU: I live in Ottawa, Canada and I am interested in one of your building kits.  On your site it states that I would have to pick up the kit at a distribution location in the US or Canada.  Can you tell me where these distribution locations are and what size vehicle I would need to pick a kit up? JEFF

DEAR JEFF: Thank you very much for your interest in a new Hansen Pole Building. In all likelihood the closest pickup point would be at Messina, NY. Vehicle size and capacity will depend upon the dimensions of the building which would best fit your needs. Once you get a quote on the building you would like to have, I would better be able to let you know what type of trucking is needed.

Mike the Pole Barn Guru